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Question Bush says no to gay marriage ( SpeedGuide.net Broadband Community General Discussion Board )
Updated: 2008-05-04 04:09:57 (79)
Bush says no to gay marriage

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...age/index.html


What's so wrong with it that the Pres. has to get it outlawed? Is he being bought by the religious right or big business on this one?

Answers: Bush says no to gay marriage ( SpeedGuide.net Broadband Community General Discussion Board )
Bush says no to gay marriage

No I think it his personal beliefs

I dont think he is outlawing it per se, just not going to support it

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by schlurpee
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...age/index.html


What's so wrong with it that the Pres. has to get it outlawed? Is he being bought by the religious right or big business on this one?
Think about it.

$$$$$$$$$$$$ (married couples have certain benefits)

Plus Bush is a religious man, and has been taught all his life it is wrong.

Norm

Bush says no to gay marriage

Now I know I did indeed vote for the right guy!

He will get my vote next term

Brent

Bush says no to gay marriage

It's a global conspiracy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3108349.stm

Norm

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Norm
It's a global conspiracy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3108349.stm
Awesome, glad these people that are in power are making these statements and trying to do something about it.

Brent

Bush says no to gay marriage

Good for Bush, good for the Vatican (I can't believe I'm saying that) and good for anyone who knows it's wrong.

Burke

Bush says no to gay marriage

It's about his personal beliefs. Like Norm said he grew up believing this.

Roody

Bush says no to gay marriage

Personal beliefs or not ....it's something that shouldn't be legislated by religious beliefs.....


Brent...didn't you have a post here a while back, that because you were looking at gay porn..you were doubting your own sexuality?

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Brent
Now I know I did indeed vote for the right guy!

He will get my vote next term
he got my vote no matter what

way i want any of the potential democrat choices

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by downhill
Personal beliefs or not ....it's something that shouldn't be legislated by religious beliefs.....


Brent...didn't you have a post here a while back, that because you were looking at gay porn..you were doubting your own sexuality?
you thought i was serious? lol

Brent

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by downhill
Personal beliefs or not ....it's something that shouldn't be legislated by religious beliefs.....

I would have to disagree with you Downhill. The President made his remarks based on his religious beliefs. If you are looking solely at the Bible itself the President is speaking out against something the Bible condemns clearly. The Bible also makes it clear that obeying God is the first course of action.

No doubt we elect public officials for what they will do for us and our country. That said, an official is partly who he is because of what he believes. If someone doesnt like who that person is then fortunately our system is such that we can vote against them later on.

Just my own .02

Roody

Bush says no to gay marriage

Way To Go Pres.!!! We need need need morality back in this country!!!! As immoral as this nation has become, we need a Pres. who's willing to take criticism for what he believes in!

Prey521

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Roody
I would have to disagree with you Downhill. The President made his remarks based on his religious beliefs. If you are looking solely at the Bible itself the President is speaking out against something the Bible condemns clearly. The Bible also makes it clear that obeying God is the first course of action.

No doubt we elect public officials for what they will do for us and our country. That said, an official is partly who he is because of what he believes. If someone doesnt like who that person is then fortunately our system is such that we can vote against them later on.

Just my own .02
I happen to agree that he made them remarks based on his beliefs....that is not what I was hitting on.....



Even though my own personal beliefs mimic his......my own beliefs in fairness dictate that if it's outlawed in this country, we need to look at a way give them the same benefits that are accorded to you or me or anyone else that happens to be married....


For the record before the religious right jumps down my throat...

The institution of marriage is not one that's only afforded to the pious.....The Christians did not invent the idea......sorry.........Marrige even though a very religious thing to Christians and other religions...is not a religous idea......Taking one mate for life came about long before the Old Testement was written..

The problem now, lies in that in this country, married couples enjoy certian benifits. Like insurance, tax breaks and so forth......

If the Consituition means anything at all........then the same thing should apply to all walks of life....not just followers of Jerry Fawell and Pat Robertson.........that is my belief..

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

I don't understand what the big deal is. As long as a man and woman or a man and a man or a woman and woman love each other and get married for that reason I have no problem with any of it. I do understand that people are put off by the media saturation of the gay agenda. Sometimes its still hard to believe that only 6-8% of the populace it gay. That said I still have no problem with this particular part of it.

64bit

Bush says no to gay marriage

The government wouldn't care about gay marriage if it were not for the high financial costs of allowing it.

Bush himself is another story, he's deeply religious, and can't agree from a spiritual perspective.


What ever happened to the separation of church and state?

Norm

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Norm
The government wouldn't care about gay marriage if it were not for the high financial costs of allowing it.

Bush himself is another story, he's deeply religious, and can't agree from a spiritual perspective.


What ever happened to the separation of church and state?
He is not saying he is agianst gay people, he is just against marriage, because marriages is suppose to be between a man and a woman.

Besides if the majority of Americans are unhappy with his decision then they should vote him out.

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Correct me if I am wrong, however, isn't marriage itself a result of religion? What is marriage? To be joined in the eyes of God?...

If you do not believe in religion, then why would you want/need to get married? That is of course depending if you are serious about not believing, the tax benefit would seem irrelevent, unless ones principles and morals can be bought rather cheaply....


Hey DH, what is the first documented occurrence of marriage? What is it's true origins?

Ken

Bush says no to gay marriage

Ok some people think it is wrong and i respect their opinions but why does it have to be outlawed? I think smoking is wrong but you don't see me lobbying to get it made illegal.

Let's hope everything Bush thinks is wrong gets made illegal too, because we all know if we were brought up being taught it was wrong it has to be wrong because we can't think for ourselves

Zilog B

Bush says no to gay marriage

Wow... one thing I actually agree with him about....


next thing you'll see is a gay guy walking around pregnant.






ooohhh yeaaah

EvilAjax

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by mountainman
And how is that working out for ya ? You don't seem too good at it from what I've read here. Great post.

You were able to illustrate EXACTLY why I would never want to follow anything you say or believe. In your first paragraph you tell me to "shove it" and RIGHT after that, you said that you want to "co-exist with others as well as you can" and "respect other people's beliefs". Wow. Good show.

So.. was that an example of how you accept my beliefs ? Or do you only do that when it's convenient ?
You apparently missed the key difference in the way each of you are handling your beliefs. He didn't advocate requiring you to agree with his beliefs, but your stance (support of a marriage ban) would encode yours into LAW forcing others to live by what you believe.

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by mountainman
And how is that working out for ya ? You don't seem too good at it from what I've read here. Great post.

You were able to illustrate EXACTLY why I would never want to follow anything you say or believe. In your first paragraph you tell me to "shove it" and RIGHT after that, you said that you want to "co-exist with others as well as you can" and "respect other people's beliefs". Wow. Good show.

So.. was that an example of how you accept my beliefs ? Or do you only do that when it's convenient ?

When I'm faced with blatant right-wing bullsh*t spewing out of someone I get a bit fired up. Excuse me.

lol, I hope you're reborn gay and have to live with all the decisions you're so fond of now.

Humboldt

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by torsten
Well...... If you are STRAIGHT and love each other what's the point if you have a marriage license or not?
Being united under God and being married to have sex and children without sinning.

Or was that a rhetorical question ?

mountainman

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
if you are gay and love eachother what the point if you have a marriage license or not?
Well...... If you are STRAIGHT and love each other what's the point if you have a marriage license or not?

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
this law isnt


if you are gay and want to be with someone who is gay no else is forcing you not to


it just saying you cannot reap the financial awards of being married


if you are gay and love eachother what the point if you have a marriage license or not?
So if a same sex couple has been together for 20 years, 1 goes into the hospital and is deathly ill...their partner has no right to make life support decisions or benefit from insurance policies or in some cases even visit their loved one (non-family) and this is ok?

Humboldt

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Humboldt
Do you know me or my character? No, so take your little smiley face and shove it. Don't judge me. (snip snip for my point)My belief is to co-exist with others as well as I can, to respect other people's beliefs, to stand ...
And how is that working out for ya ? You don't seem too good at it from what I've read here. Great post.

You were able to illustrate EXACTLY why I would never want to follow anything you say or believe. In your first paragraph you tell me to "shove it" and RIGHT after that, you said that you want to "co-exist with others as well as you can" and "respect other people's beliefs". Wow. Good show.

So.. was that an example of how you accept my beliefs ? Or do you only do that when it's convenient ?


mountainman

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by schlurpee
Exactly.
this law isnt


if you are gay and want to be with someone who is gay no else is forcing you not to


it just saying you cannot reap the financial awards of being married


if you are gay and love eachother what the point if you have a marriage license or not?

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
I agree, and you can call God = Nature, jesus, Buddha it dont matter point is it is not natural
oh yes it is. 100% natural. sexual orientation has been a natural variant in the human population for all of our history. The only thing that's changed is that many people have come to see that hatred of something natural is crazy. What you really are saying is that it's less common than heterosexuality. That's true, but it doesn't make it "wrong" any more than left-handedness is wrong.

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Humboldt
I DO NOT believe in laws that try to dictate how I and my neighbors should live based on someone else's interpretation of a religion.

Exactly.

Zilog B

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by mountainman
Who's beliefs should I use than ? Yours ? Pssssht.

Do you know me or my character? No, so take your little smiley face and shove it. Don't judge me.

My belief is to co-exist with others as well as I can, to respect other people's beliefs, to stand up for what I believe, and to try to enjoy what time I have here. I DO NOT believe in laws that try to dictate how I and my neighbors should live based on someone else's interpretation of a religion.

Humboldt

Bush says no to gay marriage

My blood is boiling again, so I think I'll bow out of this thread before I say something I can't take back.

Done that too many times already here at SG

Norm

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by mnosteele52
If homosexuality were natural then God would have intended for two men or two women to conceive a child together. That is not possible and defies all the laws of nature. I also don't completely agree with the complete separation of Church and State....... this country was founded on the priciples of God and religion.......... what is on every coin..... IN GOD WE TRUST.

Just my 2c.

I agree, and you can call God = Nature, jesus, Buddha it dont matter point is it is not natural


but it not right for me to judge i can careless what they do in their house, but I dont want to pay for it

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by schlurpee
If you have to fall back to religion or the bible to defend your views on this matter then you just affirmed that the government has absolutley no business in making a decision on this subject.
OK... then who should make the decisions ?

Quote:
Originally posted by schlurpee
But wait, that's right. We only use the constitution and bill of rights when it favors our case, the rest of the time we just ignore it.
Example(s) ?

mountainman

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by mountainman
I'm just waiting for the .

It's because the majority of US Citizens who have the right to vote have NO clue what is going on with the laws. The reason we vote these people in is to go to Congress/Senate/etc meetings and listen to laws be proposed to make an INTELLEGENT decision and vote on "our behalf" based on what they know.

No one could keep up to breast with all of the stuff they'd be asked to vote on.



Still waiting for the smiley face .... *whistling*
And the people who are voting for these people are the same ones you are referring to?

If you cut out the middlemen that is the politicians we will get thigns done a lot faster.

Besides I dont believe our politicians are realyl that intelligent they are run by corporations, and groups that have money, they are just pawns

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Humboldt
What a bunch of ******* idiots who put their own beliefs ahead of anyone else's.
Who's beliefs should I use than ? Yours ? Pssssht.

Quote:
Originally posted by Humboldt
I guess a rough 10% of our population are sinners that should have no right to live their lives how they want.
I think your number is way off. I'd say the majority of the population sins in the eyes of God, but that is why Jesus died on the cross. He forgives the Christians of their sins.

Quote:
Originally posted by Humboldt
You should be ****ing ashamed of yourselves. Keep your god damn religion out of our laws.
It is impossible to keep God out of the laws when there are so many laws with the Church. It seems that when they say there should be a seperation between Church and State, it is refering to a one way street. They don't want to have the church in the state, but big government usually has no problems sticking their noses in the church.

Go figure.

mountainman

Bush says no to gay marriage

If you have to fall back to religion or the bible to defend your views on this matter then you just affirmed that the government has absolutley no business in making a decision on this subject.

But wait, that's right. We only use the constitution and bill of rights when it favors our case, the rest of the time we just ignore it.

Zilog B

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Humboldt
What a bunch of ******* idiots who put their own beliefs ahead of anyone else's.

I guess a rough 10% of our population are sinners that should have no right to live their lives how they want.

You should be ****ing ashamed of yourselves. Keep your god damn religion out of our laws.

Turning off my computer and wondering why I even would want to associate with some of you.
I'm feeling the same way.

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

If homosexuality were natural then God would have intended for two men or two women to conceive a child together. That is not possible and defies all the laws of nature. I also don't completely agree with the complete separation of Church and State....... this country was founded on the priciples of God and religion.......... what is on every coin..... IN GOD WE TRUST.

Just my 2c.


mnosteele52

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by mnosteele52
If homosexuality were natural then God would have intended for two men or two women to conceive a child together. That is not possible and defies all the laws of nature. I also don't completely agree with the complete separation of Church and State....... this country was founded on the priciples of God and religion.......... what is on every coin..... IN GOD WE TRUST.

Just my 2c.

Hypocrisy of the highest order.




Humboldt, I feel the same way (not towards you though it may seem like it sometimes,
I do play too hard with you, only because you can take it like a lady ) jk buddy.

Norm

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Why?

how is it any different from here?

We can all do it form the internet

Anytime there is a vote or proposal we just all vote yeah/no/undecided

what is the difference of us voting or an elected official who only got there because of money
I'm just waiting for the .

It's because the majority of US Citizens who have the right to vote have NO clue what is going on with the laws. The reason we vote these people in is to go to Congress/Senate/etc meetings and listen to laws be proposed to make an INTELLEGENT decision and vote on "our behalf" based on what they know.

No one could keep up to breast with all of the stuff they'd be asked to vote on.



Still waiting for the smiley face .... *whistling*

mountainman

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Norm
That would be a riot, litterally. Funny as hell to watch and be a part of.
Consider that there are far more intellectually challenged people than not before you walk that route.





Why?

how is it any different from here?

We can all do it form the internet

Anytime there is a vote or proposal we just all vote yeah/no/undecided

what is the difference of us voting or an elected official who only got there because of money

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

I am extremely glad that I voted for Bush. Unless another great Republican gets his foot in there as a possible candidate, he'll definetely be getting my vote in 2004.

That said, I believe he is doing the right and moral thing here by not backing this. Since homosexuality is wrong and sinful, it would be wrong to pass a law that would allow it to be legal. Here is a little web page written by a Pastor of the origins of marriage and what it means to be married. An excerpt:

Basic to Christian marriage is a healthy and Biblical attitude toward death. Because we accept the fact that marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman, we accept the fact that death is implicit in a covenant. Here in Genesis we learn that marriage is death to being single, it is death to being dependent on parents, to the old way of doing things. A couple who marries and continues the same patterns after marriage that they lived before marriage fails to understand the covenant of death. Marriage is a promise, "till death do us part".

Marriage is also a covenant of life. It is intertwined with the truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ and all that trust in Him for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. It is a covenant of life that lives in anticipation of one day standing before God to give an account of my conduct in the marriage relationship. Because it is a covenant of life, it changes the way I look at problems in my marriage. It motivates me to change to be more like Jesus regardless of my spouse.

Marriage today has become a matter of convenience and self-definition. Our culture believes that "marriage is what I want it to be." It is a man-made solution to loneliness. This unlimited perspective opens the door for same-sex marriage, living together apart from marriage. We live in a time that does not accept the fact that marriage is built on a Biblical perspective of death and life.


(There are more good points and reading there.

So, why are gays wanting to get married REALLY ? Is it because they have a profound belief in God and think they should be married before having sex ? No. Homosexuality is a sin. Ok.

So... what is the reason ? AFFIRMATION. Gays are just looking for more and more affirmation from the public as they have been doing for years. They just want to be "accepted" and told that it is OK. They have many people convinced it is OK, so they are moving to the next step.

Well, all I can say is "Keep it up, Bush!" I can only hope and pray that he stays with his beliefs and does what's right.

mountainman

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Roody
In this instance I dont believe those that are speaking out against this are threatened. Perhaps I am wrong here though. Its my opinion based on remarks heard that they believe that acts of a gay marriage to be against what God intends. At least in the case of the President and the Vatican.
Well, the cartoon was a response to the argument that many of those people do make (Bush himself has alluded to it). They're always saying that equal rights for gays (including marriage) will undermine marriage itself, undermine the family, etc. That's just a totally illogical concept. What kind of nut would base the success or happiness of his own marriage/family on whether or not 2 gay guys could marry?

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by torsten


The idea that gay marriage somehow threatens heterosexual marriage is one of the looniest bits of crap ever put forth by the world's bigots.
In this instance I dont believe those that are speaking out against this are threatened. Perhaps I am wrong here though. Its my opinion based on remarks heard that they believe that acts of a gay marriage to be against what God intends. At least in the case of the President and the Vatican.

Funny pic though Torsten.

Roody

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
I also say lets get rid of our democracy and go for a direct democrfacy where everyone votes on everything!
That would be a riot, litterally. Funny as hell to watch and be a part of.
Consider that there are far more intellectually challenged people than not before you walk that route.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not against gay marriages myself, I'm only against what it may end up costing me in raised taxes and other fees like insurance, that's all. I could care less how gays, lesbos, whatever run their lives. Who am I to judge anyone. I care about my pocket book. So if it went to a vote, I would vote no thanks. Sorry, just looking out for my own best interests.

Norm

Bush says no to gay marriage

Before this very interesting thread gets to far out of line...

Can we curb our emotions and discuss this as adults? This has gone a long ways without blowing up....

Please......

Let's stay on topic...

Thanks..

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Burke
We don't have a democracy. America is a representative republic. Pure democracy doesn't work...it would be chaos. Our system is just fine as it is. Most people won't even read the newspaper, but you want everyone to vote on everything? Not a good idea.
yeah i know we dont have a democracy


it got to be better then the system we have now

right now 99% of the politicians do nothing, but steal our money

if people dont vote big deal it dont count, besdieds do you think every elected offical votes on everything in congress, no way!

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Burke
Most people won't even read the newspaper, but you want everyone to vote on everything? Not a good idea.
But you don't have a problem with these ignorant masses voting down someone's right to marry? Did you change your mind?

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Burke
Marriage is not a right guaranteed in the Constitution.

And the supposedly "Republican" Supreme Court...that's just laughable.
Equal protection under the law IS a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

They're not Republican? Really? Of the 9, seven were appointed by Republicans. They side consistently with business interests. And they put the current president in office.

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

I am gonna say that I believe in the seperation of church and state 100% And that bush should NOT be mixing his personal beliefs with his political views. Personaly I think this is not the first time we have seen this happen with bush (Iraq, liberia anyone?) I do not respect bush as president. I do not think he has done a good job, and I wish clinton was back in office.


Before you guys say anything

I would rather have Clinton F&cking an intern
Than Bush F&cking the country.

General_Jack_As

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by torsten
If you truly understand and respect the American system, you know that one of the US's most important principles is that rights are NOT subject to majority approval. They are absolute within their scope. It's a Constitutional matter, and as such the legality of the issue should be determined by the (unfortunately Republican) Supreme Court.
Marriage is not a right guaranteed in the Constitution.

And the supposedly "Republican" Supreme Court...that's just laughable.

Burke

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
I am all for that!


I also say lets get rid of our democracy and go for a direct democrfacy where everyone votes on everything!
We don't have a democracy. America is a representative republic. Pure democracy doesn't work...it would be chaos. Our system is just fine as it is. Most people won't even read the newspaper, but you want everyone to vote on everything? Not a good idea.

Burke

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Burke
Let the American people vote on it.
If you truly understand and respect the American system, you know that one of the US's most important principles is that rights are NOT subject to majority approval. They are absolute within their scope. It's a Constitutional matter, and as such the legality of the issue should be determined by the (unfortunately Republican) Supreme Court.

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Burke
Let the American people vote on it.

We elect representatives to to do the daily work and dredge through the minutiae of fiscal policy and whatnot, but something that irrevocably alters the idea of what our society has considered moral since its inception should be given to the people to decide whether or not they want it.

But it will never happen. The courts have become the policy makers and those for the legalization and recognition of gay marriage don't want to risk the possibility of the American people voting it down, so they turn to lawsuits and end-arounds.

Let the American people vote on it.

I am all for that!


I also say lets get rid of our democracy and go for a direct democrfacy where everyone votes on everything!

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage



The idea that gay marriage somehow threatens heterosexual marriage is one of the looniest bits of crap ever put forth by the world's bigots.

torsten

Bush says no to gay marriage

Let the American people vote on it.

We elect representatives to to do the daily work and dredge through the minutiae of fiscal policy and whatnot, but something that irrevocably alters the idea of what our society has considered moral since its inception should be given to the people to decide whether or not they want it.

But it will never happen. The courts have become the policy makers and those for the legalization and recognition of gay marriage don't want to risk the possibility of the American people voting it down, so they turn to lawsuits and end-arounds.

Let the American people vote on it.

Burke

Bush says no to gay marriage

Prey.....I'm assuming you have never heard of the Jefferson Bible?

I do not think you would be impressed...

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Nah you dont understand what I am driving at

I know that not everyone can have kids, and I know that not everyone is gay, and just becuase it legal dont mean everyone will turn gay.

What I was saying was more of a theory in the sense, not literal
Not quite sure I understand your theory. Are you saying that if gays are allowed to marry, it will lead to a declining population as opposed to extinction.

dreww71

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Here is why I am against gay marriage:

If everyone was gay and married, human race would not continue anymore



Now I personally dont care if you are gay or not, it does not bother me, but I think making it legal is against the human race
Suicide is legal, so by your logic it is against the human race since if everyone committed suicide, there would be no one left. Obviously, you do care if someone is gay or else you wouldn't come up with such fuzzy logic. "What if's" aren't a very good basis for defending an argument.

dreww71

Bush says no to gay marriage

^


Good period.

tHE_0ne

Bush says no to gay marriage

Exactly the point that I was about to make Roody. When you grow up believing in something so strongly, how can you just seperate it from the decisions/choices you make in your life? Sure, he choose to run for Pres. and he won, legitimately, but that doesn't mean that he has to put aside his religious beliefs because he is Pres.



George Washington, Thomas Jefferson
Samuel Adams, First Chief Justice John Jay
Names synonymous with the spirit of our country
Founding fathers of the U.S.A.

Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains of tyranny from Great Britain By divine call Citing 27 biblical violations they wrote the Declaration of Independence With liberty and justice for all

But something happened since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone For American liberty then put it in our schools as a light Or since "Give me liberty, or give me death," Patrick Henry said Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ

We eliminated God from the equation of American life
Thus eliminating the reason this nation first began
From beyond the grave I hear the voices of our founding fathers plead You need God in America again

Of the 55 men who formed the Constitution
Fifty-two were active members of their church
Founding fathers like Noah Webster who wrote the first dictionary Could literally quote the Bible chapter and verse

James Madison said, "We've staked our future on our ability to follow The Ten Commandments with all our heart"
These men believed you couldn't even call yourself an American
If you subvert the Word of God

In his farewell address, Washington said, "You can't have national morality apart from religious principle," and it's true
'Cause right now we have nearly 150,000 kids carrying guns
To these war zones we call public schools

In the '40's and '50's student problems were chewing gum and talking In the '90's, rape and murder are the trend
The only way this nation can even hope to last this decade
Is put God in America again


Abe Lincoln said, "The philosophy of the classroom in one generation Will be the philosophy of government of the next"
So when you eliminate the Word of God from the classroom and politics You eliminate the nation that Word protects

America is now number one is teen pregnancy and violent crime
Number one in illiteracy, drug use, and divorce
Everyday a new holocaust of 5,000 unborn die
While pornography floods our streets like open sewers

America's dead and dying hand is on the threshold of the Church
While the spirit of Sodom and Gomorrah vex us all
When it gets to the point where people would rather
Come out of the closet than clean it
It's a sign that the judgment of God is gonna fall

For Jesus Christ is coming back again in all His glory
And every eye shall see Him on that day
That's why a new anointing of God's power's coming on us
To boldly tell the world you must be saved

Because astrology won't save you, your horoscope won't save you The Bible says these things are all a farce
If you're born again, you don't need to look to the stars for your answers 'Cause you can look to the very One who made those stars

History tells us time and time again
To live like there's no God makes you a fool
If you want to see kids live right
Stop handing out condoms and start handing out the Word of God In Schools!

Prey521

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Roody
There again I have to disagree. I think the point is being missed here. Remember the President puts God high on his list if you will. It is part of who the President is. Once again, I say this, if you grow up believing the way the President does, you believe that to condone the act of gay marriage is against God's word.

Its as simple as that.

Roody..The Old Testament is in contrast, very different than The Epistle Of Paul to the Ephesiahs..where the sacrement of marrige between a man and a woman and the relation to the chruch is first mentioned.....


Of course the Old Testament also forbids a man to lay with a man....



We are getting off topic...

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by 64bit
Im gonna agree with you right here big time. Statements such as:

scare me. You believe in God and the bible...that is fine with me. Don't use that believe to legislate this country. If you can't seperate the two you shouldn't be president or a member of the legislature.
There again I have to disagree. I think the point is being missed here. Remember the President puts God high on his list if you will. It is part of who the President is. Once again, I say this, if you grow up believing the way the President does, you believe that to condone the act of gay marriage is against God's word.

Its as simple as that.

Roody

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by downhill
I happen to agree that he made them remarks based on his beliefs....that is not what I was hitting on.....



Even though my own personal beliefs mimic his......my own beliefs in fairness dictate that if it's outlawed in this country, we need to look at a way give them the same benefits that are accorded to you or me or anyone else that happens to be married....


For the record before the religious right jumps down my throat...

The institution of marriage is not one that's only afforded to the pious.....The Christians did not invent the idea......sorry.........Marrige even though a very religious thing to Christians and other religions...is not a religous idea......Taking one mate for life came about long before the Old Testement was written..

The problem now, lies in that in this country, married couples enjoy certian benifits. Like insurance, tax breaks and so forth......

If the Consituition means anything at all........then the same thing should apply to all walks of life....not just followers of Jerry Fawell and Pat Robertson.........that is my belief..
That's cool Downhill. I definitely respect your opinion, but I personally believe marriage came from God and God is as religious as it gets if you see what I mean.

Roody

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken
Yes... some believe... many think... A contract between father and husband...
It seems in many beliefs, children were often the reason for marriage. (As in to keep assets with in a family, to retard incest, to promote monogamy, etc...)

Many links with many beliefs... However, few can give actual documentation or dates to substantiate a "marriage between man and woman", with most hard evidence pointing to Old Testament, however, in all of the links that I have found, including incest, I have yet to see one that tells of a "same sex marriage"... (Including the myths/legends from ancient Eqyptians, India, etc...)



Would you agree that you can not find any mention, anywhere, of homosexual marriages before our modern era? If so, then would you conclude that marriage has always been a heterosexual practice... There is plenty of evidence of homosexuality, I just don't see any connecting by marriage... Of course, I have yet to see any offspring produced by a monogamous homosexual couple

Ken.......what happened to admitted homosexuals during ancient times? Other than Greek and Roman.....and I do believe I"ve read that ceremonies did happen in Greek times.....but I'll have to research that.

There haven't been too many cultures that are forgiving of same sex couples...let alone being gay...
But then we also used to put to death, those with mental illness, deformities and so forth......

But then I do believe your asking me to document something that more than likely happened before recorded history......I think there is documantion for China that goes back around 3000 years or so....and of course your right about one thing about marrige...it isn't just about monogamy...there were/are several types of marrige.........
polygamy - one man, several wives or one woman, several husbands
polygyny - one man, several wives
polyandry - one woman, several husbands
endogamy- requirement to marry someone who belongs to his or her own group
exogamy - people have to marry someone from another area
common-law marriage
monogamy - one man, one wife

My posts are related to the nowday conception of monogamy...which has roots before written history...


I suppose iit's more a survival of the species thing than anything else that drives this idea of a perfect world......

_________________________________________

*this is not directed to anyone but just a thought*

Maybe we should legislate a law.......that would put us right on par with Afganastan and most of the Islamic middle east.....After all...a lot of their laws are all based on religion and not freedom....

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Can you explain why this would be a "PC" thing?
Political Correctness or Pink Church?

Think

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by downhill
True origins? Well I can't tell you the first time a couple decided to become monogomus..or when that idea turned into ceremony...but it is thought that even Cromagnon man at one time may have had a ceremony to join two people together...for life......would that not be a marrige? Not to confuse it with what a Christian ceramony would be......but in the end..the idea is the same...a joining of two people for life.......vows...the whole ball of wax..........

Ok...so after some googling...for your enjoyment.....

http://marriage.miningco.com/library.../aa072601a.htm

Some believe that the first people in the world to make marriage laws were the ancient Egyptians. During the New Kingdom period, a contract was drawn up between the husband and the bride's father, ensuring the property rights of the wife and children. During the Third Intermediate Period, the contract was between the husband and wife. They did include clauses such as a provision for the payment of alimony if the husband later insisted on a divorce. A woman who failed to give her husband a son might be divorced. Or the husband would take a concubine and have children by her, the wife would then adopt these children as her own.


Yes... some believe... many think... A contract between father and husband...
It seems in many beliefs, children were often the reason for marriage. (As in to keep assets with in a family, to retard incest, to promote monogamy, etc...)

Many links with many beliefs... However, few can give actual documentation or dates to substantiate a "marriage between man and woman", with most hard evidence pointing to Old Testament, however, in all of the links that I have found, including incest, I have yet to see one that tells of a "same sex marriage"... (Including the myths/legends from ancient Eqyptians, India, etc...)



Would you agree that you can not find any mention, anywhere, of homosexual marriages before our modern era? If so, then would you conclude that marriage has always been a heterosexual practice... There is plenty of evidence of homosexuality, I just don't see any connecting by marriage... Of course, I have yet to see any offspring produced by a monogamous homosexual couple

Ken

Bush says no to gay marriage

Nah you dont understand what I am driving at

I know that not everyone can have kids, and I know that not everyone is gay, and just becuase it legal dont mean everyone will turn gay.

What I was saying was more of a theory in the sense, not literal

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Think
I don't like Bush or his bag of tricks but I do not agree that gays should be recognized as a married couple.

However, it sure opens up a small market in Canada; just might open up a small gay pink church and charge $1000 per ceremony

PS. My sig says it all,"Political Correctness is a disease. My greatest fear is that, in the cause of not offending anyone, the human race will legislate itself out of existence"
Marco....I'm curious.......


Can you explain why this would be a "PC" thing?

No footnotes needed.

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

I don't like Bush or his bag of tricks but I do not agree that gays should be recognized as a married couple.

However, it sure opens up a small market in Canada; just might open up a small gay pink church and charge $1000 per ceremony

PS. My sig says it all,"Political Correctness is a disease. My greatest fear is that, in the cause of not offending anyone, the human race will legislate itself out of existence"

Think

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Here is why I am against gay marriage:

If everyone was gay and married, human race would not continue anymore



Well we happen to agree here.......if everyone was gay...the only way the human race were to survive..would be artifical insemination.......
But all one has to do...is to log into Speedguides general forum and Digital forum...to know that what you speak of...is a very small part of the population..

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Here is why I am against gay marriage:

If everyone was gay and married, human race would not continue anymore



Now I personally dont care if you are gay or not, it does not bother me, but I think making it legal is against the human race
Hmm.. Thats a pretty stupid thing to say.. I guess people who cannot have children shouldnt be allowed to get married?

Not everyone on the planet is gay... It doesnt matter if everyone in the world who was gay got married, there would still be kids.. and the human race wouldnt continue.

I thought the reason for marrige was that you loved the other person and you wanted to spend the rest of ur life with them..

Mutch

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Here is why I am against gay marriage:

If everyone was gay and married, human race would not continue anymore



Now I personally dont care if you are gay or not, it does not bother me, but I think making it legal is against the human race
So what you are saying is that if gay marriage were legal then you wouldn't be attracted to women anymore? The legality (or illegality) of it will not make people gay.

Zilog B

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken
Correct me if I am wrong, however, isn't marriage itself a result of religion? What is marriage? To be joined in the eyes of God?...

If you do not believe in religion, then why would you want/need to get married? That is of course depending if you are serious about not believing, the tax benefit would seem irrelevent, unless ones principles and morals can be bought rather cheaply....


Hey DH, what is the first documented occurrence of marriage? What is it's true origins?
True origins? Well I can't tell you the first time a couple decided to become monogomus..or when that idea turned into ceremony...but it is thought that even Cromagnon man at one time may have had a ceremony to join two people together...for life......would that not be a marrige? Not to confuse it with what a Christian ceramony would be......but in the end..the idea is the same...a joining of two people for life.......vows...the whole ball of wax..........

Ok...so after some googling...for your enjoyment.....

http://marriage.miningco.com/library.../aa072601a.htm

Some believe that the first people in the world to make marriage laws were the ancient Egyptians. During the New Kingdom period, a contract was drawn up between the husband and the bride's father, ensuring the property rights of the wife and children. During the Third Intermediate Period, the contract was between the husband and wife. They did include clauses such as a provision for the payment of alimony if the husband later insisted on a divorce. A woman who failed to give her husband a son might be divorced. Or the husband would take a concubine and have children by her, the wife would then adopt these children as her own.

downhill

Bush says no to gay marriage

Note to the government:


STOP LEGISLATING MORALITY!

Zilog B

Bush says no to gay marriage

Here is why I am against gay marriage:

If everyone was gay and married, human race would not continue anymore



Now I personally dont care if you are gay or not, it does not bother me, but I think making it legal is against the human race

Ghosthunter

Bush says no to gay marriage

I say let gays get married... They arent hurting anyone, and they are gunna live together anyways.. Let them have the benefits

And brent Id think that you wouldnt be agaisnt it.. I remember you saying something about finding a guy attractive.

Mutch

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by Norm
The government wouldn't care about gay marriage if it were not for the high financial costs of allowing it.

Bush himself is another story, he's deeply religious, and can't agree from a spiritual perspective.


What ever happened to the separation of church and state?
Im gonna agree with you right here big time. Statements such as:
Quote:
Yes, I am mindful that we're all sinners," the president said Wednesday when asked for his views on homosexuality. "And I caution those who may try to take the speck out of the neighbor's eye when they've got a log in their own."
scare me. You believe in God and the bible...that is fine with me. Don't use that believe to legislate this country. If you can't seperate the two you shouldn't be president or a member of the legislature.

64bit

Bush says no to gay marriage

What a bunch of ******* idiots who put their own beliefs ahead of anyone else's.

I guess a rough 10% of our population are sinners that should have no right to live their lives how they want.

You should be ****ing ashamed of yourselves. Keep your god damn religion out of our laws.

Turning off my computer and wondering why I even would want to associate with some of you.

Humboldt

Bush says no to gay marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by torsten
oh yes it is. 100% natural. sexual orientation has been a natural variant in the human population for all of our history. The only thing that's changed is that many people have come to see that hatred of something natural is crazy. What you really are saying is that it's less common than heterosexuality. That's true, but it doesn't make it "wrong" any more than left-handedness is wrong.
it not natural, well except for two women

Ghosthunter

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