UPDATED FIRST POST ABOUT F86 SERIES
Available in 40" and 46"
Full HD 1920x1080
8ms response time
25.000:1 dynamic contrast ratio
100Hz motion plus
Super clear panel
SRS Tru Surround XT
The F86 has 10bit panel SAME AS M86's panel.MrLOL contacted samsung and this is the answer
The image on the attachment
SETTINGS THREAD HERE
MANUAL AVAILABLE ON THIS LINK
HD TV TEST FULL REVIEW
HD TV TEST PREFERED SETTINGS
As the first owners appeared I will attach a member review as a starting opinion
I've had my LE40F86 for a week now, so I thought I'd post my own review, in thanks to those who've helped me decide on this by posting their opinions. Apologies in advance for the length of the posting, but I hope some will find this detailed account of my experiences of interest.
I don't actually have any HD receivers, consoles or disc-spinners, but I do have a PC that I wanted to be able to use in the living room and share the TV as a monitor. The PC supports 1920x1080 native resolution so I wanted a full-HD TV to get the most desktop area, and 40" seemed about the right size for it to be readable from the armchair. Obviously it had to support the 1920x1080 display mode with PC input, so this ruled out the Toshibas. I spent a long time (perhaps over a year) being frustrated at the poorly presented SD pictures I could see on the big screens in the shops, because I knew I'd just use the TV mostly for freeview, and didn't want a set that did a bad job of upscaling that signal. Most of the TVs in the shops showed up all the compression artefacts of freeview. I was upgrading from a 4:3 21" CRT, which had always given me very good natural pictures and I thought a lot of LCDs didn't look as natural, especially with movement.
In the showrooms the Samsungs generally stood out from the others in terms of contrast. The "end credits" showed up as solid white on black text, whereas some rivals were white on grey. They're also quite good-looking sets. I almost went for an M86, but prevaricated long enough for the F86 to come out with better reviews, including comments about more natural motion and good SD handling. I saw it in the shops and was tempted, but ?1399 in Currys was quite steep. Being so new I couldn't find it in the usual price-search engines, but then found stockchecker.co.uk which I hadn't heard of before. It does live price and stock checks on several sites, and sorts them by price inc. delivery with discount codes applied (it's not perfect, sometimes it says a shop doesn't sell something even though previously it gave a price, and it doesn't seem to include Crampton & Moore or Robert Whyte). It found the cheapest supplier was Dixons at ?987 with FIVEOFFTV (5% discount) and AW20 (?20 off) codes. Unfortunately Dixons website asks for your post code before giving stock availability for your area, and they seemed to be always out of stock. I found this discussion thread and started to get worried about the "hum bar" complaints, but then just over a week ago, Dixons had stock available and I just took the plunge (having also seen comments here, e.g. #4293, that it works great with a PC - thanks qstoffe and reaper!). My card payment was delayed until Wednesday afternoon because the card company thought it might be fraudulent, but I still got delivery on Saturday morning (it was a pleasant surprise to find that Dixons free delivery for large items includes weekends).
In case it's of interest to anyone thinking of collecting one by car/van, the box size is 124x78x37cm, but not too heavy for one reasonably strong person to carry by the straps. You pull out the plugs at either side of the base, and the 5-sided box cover can be lifted up and off the TV. Then you can lift the TV out of the styrofoam base. To answer another question on this thread, mine didn't have any peel-off stickers on it, nor did I want any. I had thought of a wall-mount, then realised I'd then be stuck with that room layout, and a big change in TV size might make me reconsider things, so I got a stand from Argos. Upgrading from a 21" CRT is quite a change of footprint, but I was expecting this. Always use a tape measure to see how big it will look in your room - the showrooms are vast compared to a living room. I've managed to shoehorn the hi-fi separates two-abreast on the bottom shelf of the stand, so the new TV on its stand with hi-fi underneath takes about as much space as both the old TV/video unit AND the hi-fi stack that sat beside it.
Setting up / first impressions:
The reports on the sluggish remote are correct, and I think this caught me out on the initial setup, so I think my impatience in pushing OK several times caused it to skip the tuning of channels. I went back through the menu to manually set up and it started on the analog tuner. When I saw it locking in and storing some horrible snowy channels, I thought "oh no, the tuner is really insensitive, I'm going to need another aerial booster", but in fact it was just being a bit indiscriminate and locking in to distant transmitters before finding the frequencies from my local transmitter. I ended up with over 20 analog channels in the list, but thankfully it sorted most of the channels properly, except where it found a distant one was "strong enough" to qualify for ITV, but I was able to find the right one and reassign it. The default picture mode is 'dynamic', with awful bright and garish colours. I tend to use either 'standard' or 'movie' mode and normal colour tone for everything to get more natural pictures. Then I was very pleased with the results. I got my PC hooked up with a VGA cable that I could only borrow for the weekend (the old monitor had the VGA cable integrated into it). It was probably a good thing that I started on VGA, because this supports a lot more display modes than HDMI2, so it had no problem with the PC starting up in the 1600x1200 display mode inherited from the previous monitor. HDMI2 will take 1024x768 and 1280x1024 so if your're migrating your PC from a standard monitor to this and you only have a DVI-HMDI cable, then set one of these modes before disconnecting your old monitor to avoid problems. The picture on VGA was great, but since this is analog only, I went out and bought a DVI-HDMI cable from Maplin for about ?30. One thing I noticed on VGA was that the TV is perhaps a bit too VESA-compliant! When you shutdown the PC, instead of reverting to TV mode or another input, it switches to standby, just like a monitor should. It doesn't do this on HDMI.
Freeview picture quality:
Having watched freeview on this for a week now, I can say that I just don't think any reviews on freeview performance of any TV can be taken seriously. The results depend entirely on what material is being broadcast at the time of the review. I've seen everything from "ugh that's terrible" to "wow! is that HD?". It really does vary that much, but I'm happy to report that most of the time the picture on freeview is between good and absolutely stunning with this TV. Actually I now have 3 freeview tuners: the TV of course, one in the PVR that I've connected to SCART1, and a PC tuner card. I had already been very happy with the PQ from the PVR, as viewed on my old CRT TV, and the PC tuner looked good on the old monitor. So I thought "maybe if the internal tuner isn't up to scratch, I can just use these other ones on the external inputs". However, I think the internal tuner is even better than the others, and I still sometimes find it amazing that a compressed SD transmission can look so sharp when blown up to 40" (with good broadcast material). There are of course those times when a low bit-rate channel shows a scene where everything is moving at once, and then the compression artefacts are unbearably bad. This happened with a concert (on ITV2 I think) that ended with a lot of confetti fluttering everywhere and catching the light from the strobe and spotlights. I was able to still-frame the image and count 64 distinct blocks across and 32 blocks down. That's the blockiness of the picture when heavily compressed, and it looks like a jpeg with a really low quality factor.
PC image quality:
This is excellent. It has lived up to my hopes of using it as a PC monitor (with one exception, see later), and the size/resolution is perfect for viewing from the armchair. Even 8 point font is easy to read, and with a plain background the desktop icons look like tiles stuck to the screen. I've also watched some 'HDTV' shows downloaded from the internet, with the media player set to fullscreen. IPTV and video downloads might define the real future of HD, rather than the BluRay/HDDVD war.
I have an old DVD home cinema unit, which pre-dates things like progressive scan and only outputs S-video, so I use the AV input at the side of the TV. Picture quality is again excellent. Unfortunately I'm not a professional reviewer that tries different TVs every week and compares their relative merits. All I can say is that I like it. Skin tones are natural, not plastic, the scenery looks at times photographic and movement looks much more fluid than the juddery action I had seen when checking out other LCDs in the shops. The PVR on SCART1 looks good, but not quite as good as the internal tuner.
Time to address the hottest topic on this thread. Well, I don't have all the HD sources to test this fully, so it is a worry for me that some time after the warranty has expired I might decide to get an HD player and then find problems. For the PC on HDMI2, however, I see no problems at all. I've tried a grey desktop background, and the grey gradient image as referenced by Keanos in #4677, and saw no Hum Bars. The picture is rock solid. I tried the freeview 'test card' from Channel 12 UKTV History, as posted by Keanos in #4675, and again the picture is solid. However, using the PVR to do the same test through SCART1, I do see some faint hum bars, but I wonder if I would have even noticed them if this thread hadn't drawn my attention to them. In general I don't see or at least don't notice the hum bars on SCART1, except very occasionally, and perhaps more so when it's the source of the sub-image in PIP mode. I'm looking for it as I write this with PIP and currently it's perfectly clear, but I'm sure I've seen them before in this sub-window, and perhaps also in the mini-window shown when using the EPG. Overall with the ways I currently use this TV I've no complaints in this area. And before you ask, I have an SS04 panel with Micronas FRC and 1007.0 firmware (T-PONFMPEUMD-1007.0). Like others with this versio
n, the firmware date is Dec 03 2007 20:44:49
(update, having spent a while writing this up, I'm starting to think I can see 'hum bars' on the PC desktop, but it's just occurred to me that I've been staring at the high contrast black text on white background of this write-up in a text editor, and I think I'm seeing the residual image of all these lines of text burned into my retina! I'd better wrap this up soon)
For those of you who worry about your carbon footprint, I took some power measurements with a plug-in meter. For an LCD, the brightness/contrast settings don't affect power consumption since these just alter the LCD twist to change how much of the backlight gets though, so the backlight level determines the power consumption. Here are some typical readings:
70W (backlight 0), 150W (movie mode, backlight 5), 240W (dynamic mode, backlight 10).
This is quite a huge variation and shows how powerful the backlight is. Standby power is hard to read - the meter is maybe not that accurate at the bottom end so the amps and watts readings aren't self-consistent, but pretty low. Actually I've just had another look at this and it seems that the power factor reading is quite low (11%) in standby, so the reading is 3W true power, but 26VA 'apparent power'. This makes sense if the mains voltage is driving an unloaded transformer. The power factor goes up to 92% when turned on.
Quirks, criticisms and complaints.
As you've gathered by now I'm pretty happy with my purchase, but are there any complaints? Well, the sluggish remote has been well-covered by others. Changing channel on freeview can also be dreadfully slow at times. Switching sources can be a pain, but now I can remember what order they are in, I know whether it's quicker to press the source button to step forward or to go into the source menu and step back. I do still tend to use the PVR for watching freeview, because it has much slicker channel browsing. PIP is not available in DTV mode, nor is DTV available as the PIP sub-window, but when in PC mode, I can use PIP to watch the PVR on SCART1. This is likely to become my most common operating mode, so I can keep an eye on TV when using the PC, then switch to full screen TV when the programme I want to see starts or the commercials are over. My biggest criticism of using the DVI-HDMI2 input is that I don't get true 1:1 pixel mapping. Unfortunately I've not used my PC this way before, so I don't know if there might be a bug in the video driver causing this, and I didn't notice the problem quickly enough to test it in VGA mode before returning the borrowed VGA cable. Maybe someone else can comment on this. I have two consecutive missing columns of pixels about 2cm from the left edge of the screen. This is enough to make (e.g.) "Recycle Bin" to appear as "Recycle 3in", and a folder called "recordings" looks like "recordirgs". At least it's far enough over to the side that I can ignore it. You might ask why don't I use the "just scan" mode, well I would if it was available. Unfortunately, it seems that as soon as the TV realises the source is a PC, it disables almost all the settings, even with the HDMI input. This seems a bit overly restrictive. Maybe it's so that its free to switch display modes safely when the PC is booting up in low-res BIOS mode. Speaking of booting up, the HDMI2 input is not selectable until it sees a signal from the PC booting up. I think this is also true for VGA. The PC display settings limitations include 100Hz MotionPlus, which is disabled and not selectable. Ironically, whilst the scrolling news ticker on any TV source is smooth running even with this turned off, I find that the scrolling news ticker shown on the PC's TV card does show some stutter, but with MotionPlus unavailable in PC mode, I can't try to improve it. As for "just scan", actually I can't select this for any of the sources I currently have. Presumably this is only available for BluRay players, HD consoles and the like. There are some disconcerting disclaimers in the manual worth noting. Inside the front cover is a warning about screen burn (yes, on an LCD!) "Image retention issues are not covered by your Samsung warranty. Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention ... also known as screen burn.". And at the bottom of the troubleshooting section on page 62 they seem to be saying that dead pixels are acceptable and nothing to be upset about
: "The TFT LCD panel uses a panel consisting of sub pixels (6 220 800) which require sophisticated technology to produce. However, there may be a few bright or dark pixels on the screen. These pixels will have no impact on the performance of the product". I think others would beg to differ on the impact of stuck pixels, but at least I'm not seeing any on mine.
One final remark: I don't know if it's normal for this to happen when you switch from a normal size CRT to a large-screen LCD, but I find that my eyes get tired more quickly when looking at this screen, even though its stable and flicker-free. Did anyone else notice this? I'm getting used to it now, but it seems strange that a sharp, stable picture would be tiring to look at.
Anyway I'm sure no-one will want me to go droning on any more, so here endeth the sermon. in summary I'm pretty chuffed with this telly in spite of a few negative points, and I don't get too worked up about the dreaded Hum Bars.
Review by Grrraham
"Hey all, some initial brief observations on mine which did arrive saturday morning.
-Overall black levels are extremely nice and the shiny screen does make it look very nice indeed!
-It goes EXTREMELY black (as black as the shiny surround) although I'm still trying to raise detail slightly.
-The image on all sources pops alot more than on my last 42" TV and has a great deal more contrast.
-The set is quite wide but the sides are see through which imediately made me think of the Sony X series for some reason. The blue shiny touch sensitive silver ring at the front is a nice touch and the remote looks nice. in fact its ALL shiny Black apart from the back of it.
Blu-Ray - I demoed Casino Royale on BRD playing through a PS3 with the latest system updates and with 1080p/24 switched to on. BD/DVD Video Output Format is set to Auto.
-When you first press play there is a grey load of screen corruption as HDCP decrypts the picture for about half a sec. A lovely touch, thanks DRM!
-With DNR off and 100Hz set to off, output is displayed at 1080p/24 with no problems that I could discern.
-Slow panning shots were displayed judder free.
-With 100hz set to high , as some have previously commented, there is a weird effect where it looks like everything was filmed on a handycam. Watching blu ray I was very distracted by the unnatural motio
n, but hey, you don't need to enable it! Set 100Hz to low and the unnatural effect is not noticeable.
DVD upscaled through the PS3 (revenge of the Sith) was likewise V. Impressive and had all the same characteristics as Blu ray pretty much in terms of how it responded to settings.
-100Hz set to high looked very odd, but set to low seemed to really enhance the image in terms of the amount of detail that would otherwise be lost through blurring.
-Interestingly, setting it to High really improved the amount of panning detail but the overall speeded up effect made it unacceptable to me.
-Likewise the PS3 and hi def gaming is extremely impressive. Colours really pop off the screen and all the fine detail you would expect are present in abundance (esp in gaming mode, which I would honestly say looks better)
Xbox - This looked good with none of the ghosting I'd seen before at 1080p through VGA. I just played Gears of War and checked out the interface for 20 mins (the longest I've ever played it for so far). Image looked much better
than on my old 42" Full HD and Gears was truly a sight to behold. Auto adjust didn't thro up any weird gremlins.
Freeview Tuner - I know certain members here are anxious to hear about the freeview tuner, even though they don't use it lol. Anywho, it works.
-Having had it on all day yesterday I noticed one drop out only. Of more concern to me when watching freeview is the unresponsive remote (I might get used to this) or the time it takes to switch channels. Maybe this is normal for Samsung TV's but I don't see why it should possibly take so long to find a channel on a strong signal (1.5 secs at most).
-Freeview looked about as good as it was likely to. With 100Hz off and Low all is good, with High not as objectionable as through blu ray and dvd. I forced myself to watch football and rubgy for 10 minutes to see what it was like (and just between us, watching the underwear and odd makeup-wearing guys twirling and spinning around at the beginning of the rugby was the weirdest sports inro I've ever seen) and the 100Hz made a big difference here in a positive light (even on medium-high).
-I generally found that 100Hz can look very unnatural when fast movement is concerned. Hence I personally wouldn't keep it on high.
Wii - Looked gorgeous as usual through component. Gold Star.
Media Centre through DVI (Nvidia 7600 output) after some calibration (seemed too dark with default settings) I was generally happy with the results.
-There was a very slight rolling interference, although I personally put this down to the fact that I'm using a dvi-HDMI convertor and these HDMI 1.3 interfaces are a little picky (Samsung warns in the instructions) I'll swp out the cable and retest this. Finding cables (not at rip off prices) which are 1.3 compliant is something that isn't made such a big deal of at present but should change soon once more 1.3 HDMI devices are around.
-Also, why can't you select HDMI2 as a Home cinema PC in the menu? This option only came up when you connect via VGA
-I had to put the TV in Just scan mode to proerly display the PC image 1080p at full screen.
SKY Box briefly through RGB
-The image seemed prety good for an RGB input. On the menu screen switching between RGB and Pal made the image chage although there was only a slight amount of dot crawl and a colour shift between the two. Very good with decent quality leads. I don't personally watch sky.
Overall, as you might infer, I am very happy with it so far. I'll add some pics once I charge my DSLR (which also arrived yesterday and has sat unloved so far) The remote nnoys me so far as its spongy and a little unresponsive. Maybe I got a duff one, as the chap who runs HDTVTEST seems to love them. Getting the bottom stand off was a *nightmare* none of the screws wanted to come out and I had to rig a device out of blu tack to get it done.
The best thing about the set is deinitely the little sound that plays when you switch it on and after you switch it off!! I love it! I'll be interested to see what HDTVtest say about the TV also, I think there's alot ot be said from just liking the picture. I'm a bit of a sceptic on 100Hz, and don't really think its necessary anyway. I only got the F86 because the 46M86 was out of stock when I went to order but so far, am glad that I did."
"There is no such thing as movie plus on this set, its replaced by the 100Hz setting which has low/medium/high and demo (splits the screen with half on and half off) settings. You can enable the 100Hz on all sources unless its VGA! You can even do this in just-scan mode (which I assume is what you mean by 1:1) I'm not sure why you'd want to enable it though, as the set seems to display 1080p/24 fine without it!
I played Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Ridge Racer 7 as well as Virtua Fighter 5, all extremely beautiful and with plenty of punch and contrast!!
All I know is that I just watched LOTD rings on C4 and also Goldeneye with no such sync issues (and I'm always the first to notice these), so for me this has not been as issue.
No interference that I can discern on Sky connected via RGB-only scart.
Hiya, yes you can use the 100Hz modes (see above) in DVI -> HDMI if you want but NOT over VGA. Mind you if you are still using a VGA-only graphics card to play games, they can't be very modern games Playing the Xbox as I said above I have not noticed any smears/trails as on some of my previous displays even without the 100Hz (this is why I don't consider it worth turning on)
The 100Hz is not worth enabling if you ask me, I much prefer the images without it switched on. With it set to high everything looks like a 'special effects' scene from neighbours or a show from the 1970's. Well, maybe not that bad, but it changes the way the film is presented to something its not meant to be. On TV i can tolerate 100Hz set to low, but only just!!!! Some people might argue that it looks more natural, but to my eyes, it changes the source too much from what its intended to be although it does not affect things like lip sync."
Review written by robinthakur.
I am a long time reader first time poster.
I brought the 40" F86 from C & M and it arrived yesterday. I brought it based on the good people of this forums words and I am really pleased with it.
I watched Liverpool last night on analogue ITV(in my room I have never really been able to get freeview proper so don't have ITV freeview channels not TVs fault) and I noticed no stuttering, slowdown or anything. I had 100hz on medium for a bit, then high and it was good no problems.
The TV really comes into its own with HD material though. I also have no clouding(well if its there I can't see it and I have looked for it). My set came upright and I had it stood up for two hours before I turned it on. I used the setting for the picture from the settings thread.
So good set for me hope peoples problems get sorted.
I thought Id give a report on how im doing with the 40" F86.
I have had it now for 6 days and have noticed no problems. I have really been looking as well. I have used the settings in the settings thread and have found the picture on standard to look better than in movie mode but that's just my taste.
Im very impressed with it. My last TV was a Videoseven 27" LCD and while it was a good set for me this set really is a million miles better. I hope everyone sorts the problems out they are having and gets there sets back soon. I once again thank the good people on here for the views on this set and I am glad I brought it.
A little tip for people using the vga slot for the Xbox 360, to get access to the detailed settings gamma etc you need to turn on home cinema pc mode.
Also the leaving the set upright for two hours before turning it on, Im sure this helped me avoid clouding. Maybe its just luck but still Id recommend trying it next time you get an LCD TV it might not work but it can't do any harm.
REVIEW BY NOVISMAN
After owning this set for a couple of weeks now, and having various experiences with it, I thought i’d write a review and give you all my personal opinions of the set…!
I’ll try not to go into too much depth with regards to every single feature, but share my personal views of the TV as a whole. Hope you find it of some use.
There are also a few quick snaps I took this evening attached (displaying SD content), but I’m no photographer so they aren’t fantastic!
CHRISGEO, could you add this review to the first page when you have a moment? Thanks.
Samsung LE40F86 Review
First impressions were great, I loved the look and it sat nicely on my cabinet. The stand was already attached to the television.
When you first turn on the TV, it initialises the ‘plug and play’ type installation, which was nice and easy and guides you through tuning analog / digital signals, time/date etc.
Once this was complete, the television was up and running in no time.
Super Clear Panel
As somebody who has come from a 32” Sony CRT all the stories of reflections did not worry me too much. In fact in the real world the ‘Super Clear Panel’ is less reflective then it’s been talked up to be. I have a window opposite the television which is the worst case scenario – but it is definitely less reflective than the CRT I had previously.
Obviously, if you have a matte-style LCD reflections are nearly non-existent, which you may prefer - but the glossy panel really isn’t that bad. The plus point however is a perceived impression of improved black levels and more vibrant colours.
Well, design-wise the remote is very good. In my opinion, it has a good layout and a slim-design, and if you have compatible equipment, can be used as a one-for-all style remote so you can control DVD/Cable/VCR/STB devices.
Unfortunately though, the response of the remote leaves something to be desired. However, the only time this is a minor annoyance for is when you need to press the button 3 or 4 times to flick through the available sources.
For me though, apart from switching sources I only use the remote to change settings etc, as I use my Virgin Media box over the internal freeview which has its own remote. So the sloppy response of the remote isn’t an issue here. Users who use the remote to control the freeview may beg to differ, though.
I was really impressed by the picture quality on all sources, so long as you make the effort to experiment with the settings.
Out of the box the TV is set to the hideous dynamic mode, which must be changed immediately!
I haven’t got any access to Calibration equipment, but the review on HDTVtest is quite informative in this respect for those interested. I may pick up a copy of DVE on Blu-Ray when it is released, this may help me to ‘home-in’ on a few key settings.
There are plenty of options available in order to adjust the image to your preference, such as colour controls, white balance, as well as various enhancers such as dynamic contrast and black adjust.
I won’t go into any details on these as this area is very much based on personal preference.
SD picture quality on my Virgin Media box was the area that concerned me most when I placed my order, but I don’t know what I was worrying about. The SD performance on my Virgin Media box is excellent, from a viewing distance of about 10 feet.
There are always a lot of questions on this topic, and obviously if you sit a few feet away the compression artefacts become all too clear, but look at the screen from a sensible distance (anything from about 8-9 feet for 40” is fine, in my opinion) and you’ll be surprised how good it looks, considering how much the TV is being asked to upscale.
I’ll be honest – I haven’t used the speakers hardly at all since purchasing the TV, as I have a 5.1 setup with its own separate amplifier, so I can’t really give you an accurate opinion on the quality, sorry! If it helps at all I did use the speakers for about 30 minutes before hooking up my surround gear, and they sounded pretty good. They were certainly better than a lot of built-in speakers i’ve heard.
One thing to mention though, it seems that the Optical Out on the back of the television cannot pass through Dolby Digital or DTS, only PCM 2.0, which is a little disappointing.
Well, after reading extensively about LCD’s not having the best black levels anyway - I wasn’t expecting a black level that rivalled my 32” CRT, but I have to say I was pleasantly surprised.
Yes, perhaps the black levels were not quite as ‘black’ as the CRT - but it was extremely close after spending some time adjusting the settings. Obviously the Super Clear Panel helps give the user the impression of deeper blacks, which is a plus point. Shadow detail was still very good, although I suspect it could be slightly clearer on a non-glossy LCD.
Overall, I was very impressed with the black levels on offer - users migrating from a CRT need not worry!
Motion Blur / 100hz Motion Plus
Let’s talk about the 100hz Motion Plus first – I’ve had experience of a similar feature on the 32” CRT – and in truth it never got used because it was was terrible – mainly because of the ‘Handycam’ effect it had on television shows.
Unfortunately the same applies here. I like my programs to have the ‘cinematic and natural’ feel to them, and the 100hz Motion Plus feature on any setting takes both of these away, creating a smooth image but ultimately the dreaded ‘Handycam’ effect. This is the one of the reasons I turned 100hz Motion Plus off.
Another thing to note, is if I engage 100hz Motion Plus on one source, it takes effect on all of them, so that’s another reason to turn it off!
My final reason not to engage the 100hz Motion Plus is the F86 handles Motion Blur very well anyway. I’d go as far as to say the Motion Blur really is minimal and rivalled my CRT to some degree, so I was very impressed with the motion handling, on both SD and PS3.
SD / Freeview Performance
Again, in honesty I have hardly used the Internal Freeview tuner as I use a Virgin Media box for all my needs.
I will say on my limited usage of the Freeview tuner, there is no stuttering and performance is very good overall.
One thing to note though, is if I use the same p
icture settings on the Freeview and the Virgin Box, the colours on the Freeview certainly appear a lot more washed out. I have no idea what the reason is for this, but pumping up the contrast or colour on the freeview source does even it out somewhat though.
Blu-Ray / PS3 / Upscaling Performance
One word – excellent.
I haven’t quite finished optimising the settings to my tastes as of yet (still experimenting whether to use ‘game mode’ or not, as well as some other settings), but the 24hz input from the PS3 works fine, and Blu-Ray discs show no noticeable judder.
Playing both games and watching Blu-Ray discs on the PS3 is mind blowing, it really does show off the TV and the benefits that High Definition viewing brings.
Going back to SD, and the upscaling of the PS3 was also very impressive. I’ve only viewed a handful of SD-DVD’s on the new set, but so far so good. I was more than pleased with the upscaling results thus far.
There really isn’t much more to say on this subject, as from the outset the quality of the image from the PS3 was very good, it was a huge improvement over my CRT in all areas.
Clouding / Bleeding / Dead Pixels / Other Faults
Well, there is a bit of story behind this. I’m on my second set and I’ll explain the reasons why.
My first set had mild backlight bleed coming from the top-right corner which was noticeable on any backlight setting (apart from 0 or 1!), in all honesty I was happy to live with this as it wasn’t that bad, but after a few days a dead pixel appeared. I wasn’t too impressed, and after deliberating I decided to seek a replacement. John Lewis were really helpful and arranged an exchange very quickly.
So, my second set – so far so good. There is no backlight bleed, even at the highest setting (well there is a tiny little bit, but it is negligible and not visible at a reasonable backlight setting) and no dead pixels as of yet. I’m very pleased that I asked for a replacement and I’d say to all users that it is worth persevering in order to get yourself a set you are happy with. Samsung’s quality control is obviously not great, as I see other users have had issues with their sets. I’m not sticking up for Samsung, but I’ll bet that most other companies are the same; Sony for one have pretty terrible QC, in my experience.
For those interested, my first set had a sticker on the bag for the instructions with a September date on it (I can’t remember the exact date) but the replacement set has a newer date on it (sometime in October, can’t remember the exact date either, and the bag is in the loft now!) so it seems like the replacement was manufactured only a few weeks ago in theory – which was nice to see.
Build Quality / Aesthetics
A lovely looking set.
One problem – it’s a real dust magnet! You have got to work hard to keep this TV clean. Don’t let that put you off though, as it is great looking and very sleek - provided you actually like the glossy look. Just be prepared to keep the provided cleaning cloth nearby at all times! It is also very understated and the touch sensitive buttons are a neat addition.
I personally like the blue LED that emits from underneath the logo, but for those that don’t, you can turn it off in the user menu.
It may be my mind playing tricks, but I swear my first set had a slightly wobbly stand, the replacement just seems more sturdy. Just thought it was worth mentioning.
I’m really pleased with my purchase, the F86 is an excellent television that represents great value for money.
I have been lurking on the forums for months now and doing a lot of research, but I always seemed to be waiting for the set that ‘does everything’. What I had to remember though, is much like a PC, the technology is changing day by day and sometimes you just have to take the plunge and ‘go for it’, which is exactly what I did - and I have no regrets.
?999 plus a 5 year warranty was an excellent price to pay and obviously played a part in my decision making. For the record, it was between this set, the Toshiba Z-Series and the new series of Sony sets (either the W or X series), but the asking price for the Sony’s were just too high for me, and the Toshiba couldn’t store different picture settings per-input, so this made my decision easy.
So my advice to anybody reading this – if you are thinking of buying this set and don’t want to spend more than ?1000, this television definitely deserves its place on your short-list.
SD PERFORMANCE BY ASRIEL
To answer the people asking about SD quality.
I've just moved from a CRT and I was quite nervous about what it would look like, especially as the mother in law's new ~?400 20" Sony LCD has all the motion blur and poor colour that you notice coming from owning CRT.
I have to say I am more than happy with the picture from the internal tuner. However, the freeview picture from the tuner in my Sony HDX870 upscaling DVD recorder is sometimes absolutely stunning with the output at 1080p.
When I put it on BBC2 while wating for MOTD to start last night and saw a bit of Heroes, my jaw dropped. I froze the frame with the TV on Peter Petrelli's face in close up and you could see every pore. I called the missus in and she was well impressed, particularly of my choice of picture! It certainly looked as good as Lord of the Rings upscaled, which looked awesome.
Apart from obviously being dependant on the channel you are watching, it also seems to depend on the program, probably because the settings I've randomly ended up with suit some things more than others.
I have to say there have been a couple of occaisions with whipped in crosses where you get an artifact where there is an small partial echo either size of the ball, a bit like brackets. I recorded MOTD on high quality for just such an occurance, so at some point I'll play it back with the 100Hz at different levels (it was on low) and try different settings etc.
Overall, I'm delighted with the TV. I can't wait for someone who knows what they are doing to post some settings. I might try the ones from the AVS site later.
I am watching from around 7-8 feet and most channels look good. If you go right up to the screen you will see imperfections, especially around graphics, e.g. BBC News. It's not magic after all, it's still freeview at 1080p. Some channels do look rubbish, although not unwatchable. The rubbish channels are noticably better handled by my upscaling DVD recorder/hard drive.
Here's some photos from Return of the King on CH4 tonight. These are to give an idea of detail level.
NB Black levels a
nd contrast are MUCH better than this in real life, it's just to show that the resolution can be good. It's not the same with all channels and the level of detail is better on slow moving or static shots.
Also note that the fine vertical lines in LOTR 4 and 5 are not visible/real, they are a photo artifact. LOTR 4 is freeview from my upscaling DVD recorder/hard drive.
Obviously these are just to give a rough idea, after all, the photos are lower res than the TV, and are taken with a flash, which tends to make dark areas darker.
The Wii over component photos are a bit pixellated especially at the edges, which is how it looks.
On page 74 there are some pics too
I noticed something which may be the same thing in MOTD. The screen seemed to slow down and become jerky, as if frames were lost in between. It lasted about 2-3 seconds. I was watching freeview live from my DVD/HDD's tuner via HDMI. It's a bit like when you try and watch a video on a computer whose video card isn't up to it.
I wasn't that worried because the motion handling is generally so good and I assumed it was something that one of the settings could change, such as 100Hz Motion Plus. I consider my TV to currently be sort of on hold, looking good, but awaiting someone to tell me how to make it better.
I thought of the partial "echo" either side of the ball the same way (see earlier post). I may end up turning Motion + off, but I'm sure it will still be good.
The thing I've noticed more is that there can sometimes be a very slight problem with the audio syncronisation, even from the internal speakers. It's not enough that you can see a lip sync difference, but something in your brain says "that sounds slightly off".
I'm quite sensitive about synchronisation, but it's only sometimes and it's so subtle that you wonder if you are imagining it. The missus hasn't said anything, so I don't think she noticed it.
Some have been asking about the upgrade of firmware / software via USB, you will be able to (possibly) ......
Although I saw one epidode of the slowing down in MOTD last week, last night when I watched most of the Porto Liverpool game and flicked to the Chelsea game in the last 20 mins, I personally didn't see any stuttering/slowing down at all. In fact I haven't seen it again since the first time. Can't explain why.
This was using both my upscaling freeview and the internal freeview, as I started to record something at 9.
Separately, I can also definitively confirm that the bracketing/triple ball effect disappears with 100Hz off. I experimented with my recording of match of the day and with the CL last night. It was probably worse with the ITV broadcast last night. So I'm sorry to say that the 100Hz is useless for football, although I can't comment on HD. Very odd that the US forum thought it was independant of 100Hz, perhaps they can't turn theirs off fully?
Won't be getting rid of the TV though, I think it works more than well enough to keep me happy considering the overall picture quality and the price.
ASRIEL UPDATE REVIEW
I've had this TV for about a month now and I previously posted my initial impressions and photos. Overall I'm still very pleased with the TV including the SD picture (having come straight from a 28" 4:3 CRT). However, I thought I'd mention all the things that have bothered me about it so far. I'm not trying to put anyone off, I think it's a great TV, but forums are for getting this stuff out there.
1) I've found the 100Hz Motion Plus is pointless for sports where the ball flies fast through the air against the background of the crowd. It invariably produces a "triple ball" effect that is noticable and distracting (see photos 1 and 2). It very very occaisionally also produces an odd speeded up effect for a second or two, especially in replays for some reason. Both issues are solved completely by turning 100Hz off. Videos from my digital camera didn't work well enough to demonstrate I'm afraid.
2) I have occaisionally thought that the lip synchronisation is very slightly out. I'm a bit over sensitive about this though. For some reason, Channel 5 Life (but no other channel) has recently become way out most of the time when I've checked it. Perhaps re-tuning would help.
3) This television desperately needs a shortcut button on the remote control for bringing up the source list. Going through the menu takes 6 or 7 slow button presses and if you just press the source button the required number of times, there is a second or two pause for every press. It's particularly annoying that the Ext 1 and 2 come up every time, even though I have nothing connected via scart. To go from internal freeview to my DVD/HDD recorder involves Ext 1, Ext 2, Component, PC then HDMI and takes a good 8-10 seconds.
4) I had some backlight bleed initially but it definitely improved. Oddly, it seems quite variable now, even with every other factor the same.
Picture's 3 and 4 were taken on sunday evening with the backlight on 5 and 10 respectively. The exposure time was 1 second and to the naked eye in the real world they look completely even. The source is my PC previewing the screensaver on blank, so it is "actively" being fed a dark screen.
Picture 5 and 6 were taken only 2 hours later under identical conditions and you can see there is bleeding in the top corners and clouding at the bottom.
If you compare a letterboxed film you can see that with the backlight on 10, I couldn't see bleeding earlier in the day, but could later (pics 7 and 8).
However, with the backlight on my normal level of 4, even later on, I could barely see any bleeding in the corners, even in complete darkness.
Today it was fine again with no bleeding. Odd
Overall, I think it was money very well spent. It's not perfect, and if money is no object, I suspect that the picture processing and motion interpolation of the upcoming Sonys will be better, but for virtually half the price I have no regrets.
See his post for the photos
F86 - XBOX 360 through VGA - 1080
XBOX360 VGA RESOULUTION UPDATE
To all who are thinking of buying and have a Xbox360 for VGA connection. Relax, it works, but only after giving me a heart attack. I turned on the 360 to get a blue screen of death on the sammy "mode not supported". without any option to change resolution. Picture the scene, man plus expensive new telly = outrageous violence. So you don't go through the sheer upset I had, here's what I did:-
1) Connect old TV next to it so you can get to the 360 display settings page. Change to pants resolution (640x480)
2) Now connect back to the F86. success, 360 screen appears.
3) This is where I lost my rag. As soon as I changed to any other res, F86 said "up yours". Can you imagine how I felt! I can't explain why but I kept trying 1920x1080on the 360 and after numerous fails, suddenly it worked. So fear not, it works, EVENTUALLY. Did anyone else get this or is my TV gaybar gaybar
Don't let the shiny screen put you off matey. I'm going home tonight with Halo3 and giving the TV a damn good testing. In all honesty the glare was extremely minimal, yes I'd recommend dimming your lights but that's only for mega dark scenes. But they have definitely used a material that minmises glare. I'm quite confident that the excellent contrast that the screen gives will strongly outweigh any minor glare issue. The glossy super-clear panel defnintely makes things look super lush. It's just a case of getting used to it. (and your settings).
I wouldn't compare the glare to something like the Toshiba laptops I've seen, I found them ridiculous, like trying to surf the net through a double glazing window! Samsung have reduced this I'm certain. So ditch the gf and BUY BUY BUY!
I'm happily typing this on a wireless keybaord in my living room with a BIG MONITOR.
SAMSUNG F86 FAQ
How can I check for the tv version?
The version number is on a label on the right hand side of the tv
What's the sky remote code?
0060 works well
You need to reprogramme it.
1) Turn on the TV
2) Press TV on the Sky remote
3) Hold down SELECT and RED for approx 2 secs until the light on the remote flashes twice
4) Press TV on the remote again
5) Key in 0060 - the light blinks twice
6) Press the STANDBY key on the remote
a) if the tv switches off press SELECT
b) if it doesn't switch off then Press the TV button again then try the STANDBY button again - keep repeating these two button presses until it eventually switches off, then press SELECT
If your Sky remote is really old it might not work with the TV - newer remotes have different codes.
Can the blue led still attached at the tv if the stand will be removed?
"Samsung may offer upgrades for TV's firmware in the future. Please contact the Samsung call center to receive information about downloading upgrades and using a USB drive. Upgrades will be possible by connecting a USB drive to the USB port located on located on the side of your TV.
1. Insert a USB drive containing the firmware upgrade into the
WISELINK port on the side of the TV.
2. Press the MENU button to display the menu.
Press the ▲ or ▼ button to select "Setup", then press the ENTER/OK button.
3. Press the ▲ or ▼ button to select "SW Upgrade", then press
the ENTER/OK button.4. Press the ENTER/OK button.
The message "Scanning for USB... It may take up to 30 seconds." is displayed. Please be careful to not disconnect the power or remove the USB drive while upgrades are being applied. The TV will shut off and turn on automatically after completing the firmware upgrade. Please check the firmware version after the upgrades are complete."
The only worrying thing about this is the last sentence. As you can't check the main firmware without going into the service menu, it looks as if this could be to upgrade the internal DTV firmware only, unless the main firmware is also updated "on the fly".
Note - in another section it also talks about updates being "broadcast" over the air waves.
Some were asking whether the large blue LED at the base could be turned off ..... it can;
"Light Effect: Off/In Standby/In Watching TV/Always
You can turn on/off the LED on the front of TV according to the situation. Use it for saving power or
when the LED dazzles your eyes.
− Off: LED will not come on.
− In Standby: Turns the LED on in standby mode.
− In Watching TV: Turns the LED on while watching TV.
− Always: LED will come on after you turn the TV off.
Set the Light Effect to Off to reduce the power consumption."
For PC users on HDMI, they recommend using HDMI2 (strange it's not 3 as that's on the side and more accessible).
"When a PC with a resolution of 1920 x 1080@60Hz is connected to the HDMI IN 2 port, you should set the "HDMI2" mode to "PC" in the "Edit Name" of the "Input" mode"
"When using an HDMI/DVI cable connection, you must use the HDMI IN2 jack"
where it is showing all the connectivity options.
There is a huge 7 page section on using the Wiselink USB feature for viewing photos, listening to MP3's etc.
In contrast, surprisingly the section on 100Hz Motion Plus is tiny and pretty poorly described .... this is it;
"100Hz Motion Plus: Off/Low/Medium/High/Demo
You can view more natural skin and clear text even in fast moving scenes.
This function is not available in PC mode."
HDTV TEST OBSERVATIONS BY KEANOSMAGICHAT
Perhaps some are concentrating a little too much on the negatives here, there is a positive slant in that the TV achieved "HDTVtest Recommended" status so the good points, in the reviewer's eyes, have clearly far outweighed the bad.
Anyway, I'd recommend people read the whole review to form their own opinion, but these are the high / lowlights for me (contains quotes from the review for reference - all credit to HDTVtest). For readibility, I've included my comments in square brackets.
"Mild clouding reducible to negligible levels" - [It seems there is still the mild clouding that was apparent on the M8 series. I've had two M8's because of the Freeview Stutter / Judder fault and the first had this mild clouding which, like the review sample of the F86 here, did not impinge on picture quality. My second set is worse though and I can see clouds on black cut scenes in movies etc.]
100Hz Motion Plus - On Blu-Ray, minimises motion blurring, but introduces interpolation artifacts - [recommended off for Blu-Ray.]
On HD Satellite, artifacts even on low setting, but off, "pleasantly surprised by how well the Samsung LE40F86BD coped with fast-action sports".
On games - "more annoyed by the tearing/ juddering artifacts than be pleased by the mild improvement in motion resolution".
"there is proba
bly no condition under which I would voluntarily engage [100Hz Motion Plus] on the LE40F86BD to enhance my viewing pleasure."
[So based upon these quotes it seems that 100Hz, for the reviewer, was pretty much a waste of time, which is disappointing. On the plus side he does complement the motion handling with it switched off and enough to give it "Recommended" status but I'd have preferred the 100Hz to make a real difference what with it being advertised as one of the main features of the TV.]
"some noise and shimmering over component" - [this is only mentioned briefly in the review but, as I know a number of you out there use component (I personally don't), I felt it was an important consideration. For those that do, perhaps it is worth questioning the reviewer further on this.]
"0% overscan on Just Scan with 1:1 pixel mapping" - [self explanatory really]
Excellent Black level - "The M86/ 87 range already boast the deepest blacks in the LCD TV business, but somehow Samsung has managed to improve matters even further. Calibrated (i.e. without impinging on shadow detail or peak brightness) black level on the Samsung LE40F86BD measured 25% lower than that on the LE40M86BD."
"The excellent blacks and high contrast ratio on the Samsung LE40F86BD gave the film a very satisfying three-dimensional look" (on Blu-Ray)
"Throw in a black-level performance that's best-in-class (as long as we're talking about LCDs without wandering into local-dimming LED territory), and breathtaking picture depth that is laid down by Super Clear Panel™, and we've suddenly got a formidable television on our hands"
Blu-Ray on PS3 - "Accepts 1024p/24 from PS3 without telecine judder" and on Auto. "Noticeably smoother." "reduction in judder"
[Whilst I've listed the above as a positive, I'm going to ask a further question this as I'm hoping for the day I see a review talking about no judder on 1080p24 material rather than a reduction. Perhaps my expectations are unrealistic at this stage (or price bracket) with current technology?]
Freeview, "The depth and dimensionality afforded by the LE40F86BD was what helped me enjoy a screening of Edward Scissorhands on Channel 5: Sitting through over 100 minutes of the movie, together with analysing the scrolling ticker on Sky Sports News, revealed no frame drop/ stuttering which has been reported on the M86/ 87 series... hopefully this bug is a thing of the past."
[Yes yes yes yes yes !!!!! Over 100 minutes of Freeview watched (I'd recommend at least 2 hours - but this should be enough time) and NO judder / stutter
I'm still holding fire on this one as we only have a relatively small sample of owners at the moment but with no reports so far things are looking better.]
Gaming - "a thoroughly enjoyable and fearless (no image retention or screenburn!!) gaming experience on the Samsung LE40F86BD"
So overall, whilst I am disappointed 100Hz seems to be a relatively poorly implemented feature based upon the hype I think the review overall is fairly good.
It has to be, they wouldn't have recommended the set otherwise.
One thing not mentioned is SCART interference, not sure a SCART device was tested but I'll be asking about that too.
Questions to the HD TV TEST REVIEWER
I promised to ask a couple of questions. The reviewer, Vincent has quickly come back to answer not only mine but those of others as well.
Firstly my question post;
"Vincent - Thank you for the review just a few points to clarify if I may.
As an owner of an M87, I've been hugely disappointed by the Freeview Stutter / Judder Fault which I have had on two TV's (so far). I noticed you watched 100 mins+ of continuous footage and did not see any instances of the issue which is superb. I'm just hoping your review sample is representative of the range as a whole and that this fault has been eradicated once and for all.
The other widespread fault remaining on the M8 series is SCART Interference (some call it banding) where horizontal wavy interference lines move up the screen on one or both SCARTS on an affected TV. I attributed this to poor shielding of the SCARTs from the PSU and this was subsequently confirmed by a Samsung Service Centre.
I noticed from your pics that there seems to be much more separation of the PSU from the SCARTs on the F86 based upon the moulding of the back of the unit. Would you say this was a fair observation? Also, before the TV is returned to Samsung, would you be able to please test whether this interference is present using a SCART enabled device?
Coming back to the points made in the review I noticed when talking about the handling of 1080p24 material you stated it was "Noticeably smoother" and that you observed a "reduction in judder".
I'm hoping for the day I see a review talking about no judder on 1080p24 material rather than a reduction. Perhaps my expectations are unrealistic at this stage (or price bracket) with current technology?
Just to clarify this point though, as I'm fairly new to the world of LCD, on Blu-Ray do you still see judders from the edges of large objects such as buildings etc on panning shots? If so, you describe this as reduced, is it reduced enough to be classed as on of the best LCD's currently out there at handling this material (irrespective of the price)?
Thanks in advance for your reply. "
"Your observations regarding the PSU shielding / Scart are logical. Unfortunately – believe it or not – I do not own any Scart device, but a couple of owners have reported no Scart interference.
24p material will always have an inherent judder that contributes towards the dreamlike temporal quality you see in movies. Due to conditioning over the years we have trained ourselves to tune it out, but on a much larger screen you may start noticing it. When I said judder was reduced, I meant that there was no telecine (3:2 pulldown) judder or other undue frame rate conversion (FRC) judder, both of which are more obvious and annoying than 24p judder.
I haven't tested the Z3030D or X3000/ X3500... all I can say is that in handling 1080p/24 from the PS3, the F86 compares well to the Pioneer Kuro 508XD plasma."
So all looking good at the moment.
Thanks to KeanosMagicHat
ok, i raised some questions with vincent the reviewer from hdtvtest.co.uk.
the following are the questions and his responses. comments welcome particluraly on the last question
Question regarding component input shimmer
once thing i noticed and would affect me was a throwaway comment you made regarding the component input. you stated there was some interference or shimmer? was this on particular settings or a constant interference?
i have a Wii and its connected via component, so constant shimmer might rule this tv out completely.
That was a full bandwidth per-pixel torture test which indicated some throttling over component, but in the real world it is very unlikely that you would ever see these noise/ shimmer because such high bandwidth is not required. To be on the safe side though, I recommend using the HDMI connections which gave a clean and stable pattern.
so no a real world issue but maybe possibly and issue for purists
Question on colour management and resulting colour reproduction
you also mentioned that the cms options were poor, but colours ended up looking good. are they better then the M8 series review you did where you said skin tones were not so good?
Colours on the 40F86 had more accurate hues but were less saturated than those on the 40M86. Skin tones look better as a result.
over colour on the F8 is better so good news there
question regarding viewing angle
also you have not commented on the viewing angle even though you have reported a pretty poor 90 degree. whats your view on this please as thats worse then the m87
Sorry to disappoint, but it's about the same as on the M8. After all they both employ SPVA and Super Clear Panel.
so no improvement in viewing angles from the M8. i would welcome people who have had both to comment on their perceptions regarding the viewing angle
LIST OF DETECTED FAULTS
The faults that have been detected so far is clouding and a triple ball effect on football material
Also BANDING seems a very common fault.Here is a list of the versions that have been detected having banding
It seems that quite a few people have this problem, and I suspect that many others have not noticed it (yet). "Special conditions" are necessary for the banding to show up. It happens most of the time on when the brightness of the displayed picture is fairly low. I'll try to come up with a typical image.
So far, most of the people reporting the fault have SS02 or SS04 models. Only one person has a SQ01.
Here is a summary (thanks to people who provided information on their model):
Faulty (banding): 8
SS02: samark2, Telumehtar, ezechiel1917 (40" XEH PA000)
SS04: yoda1 (46", PA00270E), ChapeL, fazer80 (FR 46")
SQ01: gasgas (FR 46" P901xxxxx)
? Tristan77 (FR)
Non faulty: 6
SQ01: Kegde (p9), spanky2k (46" p9000557H), Persian Pro (46"), samark2, david555 (FR), Lucky087 (P9)
VIDEOS SHOWING THE FILKERING AND HUM BARS ISSUE
DIFFERENCIES BEETWEEN M86/7 SERIES AND F86 SERIES
- Justscan for Component, too
- 100Hz/120Hz with OFF/Low/Medium/High Settings (ME/MC technology)
- Firmware updates by USB
- Wiselink from USB Stick (MP3 Player / JPG SlideShow)
- Glossy (reflective) panels (same as M87s)
- Enhanced DYNAMIC contrast ratio (from 15'000:1 to 25'000:1)
- Speakers on the Side
- Pumped up price
How to access service menu.
Also take notes of the service menu options in order to have them if you do anything wrong.Also if you do NOT know anything about what to do leave it
List of known F86 firmware versions:
Aug 18 2007
Sep 28 2007
Sep 28 2007
Oct 05 2007