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Question Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion ( AVS Forum LCD Flat Panel Displays )
Updated: 2008-05-11 21:13:08 (5485)
Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

So Philips introduced a new set of 7000-series TVs at CES this year:

http://www.ces.philips.com/press_release_7000tv.html

120Hz panel, 2 ms response time, 4 HDMI 1.3a ports, and a new speaker system with integrated subwoofer. I was a day or two from pulling out the credit card for a 42PFL7432D/37 at Best Buy when they were on sale a couple weeks ago, now I'm glad I waited! The 42PFL7403 (or 7603 if you feel Ambilight is worth $100) look like the sets to beat, IMO.

Has anyone seen these in person (CES attendees, daveinga, etc)? Anyone else have thoughts on them? Info's a little scarce on the web since they're so new, but I did find this:
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9843969-67.html
http://gizmodo.com/tag/philips-7403/

Answers: Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion ( AVS Forum LCD Flat Panel Displays )
Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

No problem - I just can't quite figure out what you've done. If you could add a little more practical comparison and state what the test signals are it would help. Perhaps drive each with an actual video signal and control the experiment somewhat - either by splitting the input so it's theoretically identical or use exactly the same photo settings . . . Also record how each set is configured (contrast, brightness etc etc)

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Camera settings are there, feeds are specified (pixperan and pure black backgrounds, my first post was just credits shots from a rip playing through PC/VLC), Samsung is calibrated to the settings I just linked to, Philips has DNM off, brightness turned way down in a failed attempt to get decent black levels. The rest doesn't really affect the performance of the panel, as I understand it.

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Maybe it's just me - I took another look at your posts and if you put me in a room with your test screens and the equipment you used to perform these tests I couldn't repeat them based on what you've posted. Furthermore it's not clear what you like or dislike. The only compelling picture I see is the black level - but the 540 is displaying a graphic while the 7403 isn't. Again, I don't know what the settings of each set are (brightness, contrast, dynamic contrast, active control etc. etc.). In your "black level" test are you feeding the set a signal or not. If not, how do you know the set is actually interpreting the input as "black"? Forgive my probing - I dare say you have a point and maybe I'm being pedantic. Probably comes from teaching engineering to Duke undergraduates for a few years in a prior life.

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Aaagh, I'm a physics major and sometimes the scientific method in its entirety bores me. I always did crappy in my lab classes because I omitted details like these :-D The Philips has a black screen provided through HDMI by PC, and for the sake of simplicity I just let the Samsung without a feed, same blacks as with though. The Philips displays a bright blue screen when feedless. Fantastic. Oops, I just read your final sentence! Hahaha, yes you do remind me of my lab professor :-) I TA'ed labs, but expected more from the students than I would have done myself. Settings for the samsung are specified in the link for calibration I posted three posts back, settings for the philips are cont 65, bri 60, color 60, tint -2, sharpness 3, color temp normal, off off off off, on with light. I think I arrived at that brightness by finding the setting that dimmed the backlight the most, and that was the threshold below which it would deepen blacks no more, just dim colors. If that makes sense. It does in my head. :-)

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Philips 7403: Pros: DNM (in pans and nothing else), 120Hz, 2ms response time, 1" larger, $100 cheaper, 1 extra HDMI input, builtin tiny subwoofers sound better.
Cons: 120Hz/2ms does not show practical improvement over Samsung (in pixperpan or visual tests), horrid black levels (evidenced in photos), poor menu/interface design (options, customizability, service menu (none), backlight dimming), many reports of GLoD, power cycling, whatever else was out there (never had them myself), aspect ratio choice the same between HD and SD (so one or the other looks skewed, have to change each time), double handshake with HDMI takes too long to change sources, no no program data (ie, in an hour, this show'll be on, etc.).
Samsung 540: Pros: stunning black levels, adjustable backlight, looks like 1:1 in DVI over HDMI, highly customizable (especially color settings), VGA in, backlit remote on button press, service menu exists and is accessible.
Cons: $100 more after cupon at costco, 1" smaller, 60Hz/5ms RT rated, though testing shows no difference, sound not as good, though close with EQ tweaking and SRS on.
Both have upgradeable firmware, though only the Philips has gotten updates (and it still has problems :-( I had such high hopes for you, little (actually slightly bigger) buddy..). Thoughts?

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by icdragon
Hahaha, yes you do remind me of my lab professor :-)

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by icdragon
Thoughts?
I bought a Panasonic Tau 34" HDTV back when HDTVs where more or less new. I always knew I'd buy another TV somewhere down the road and that it would be better. Right now I have a 7403. Some day I'll buy another TV and it will be better. Not just a little bit better, a lot better. Probably 7 or 8 years from now. In 2015 I'll look back on 2008 and say to myself, "The difference between a Samsung, a Sony and a Philips in 2008 wasn't a whole lot relative to what I'm watching today".
Maybe a little philosophical but I am a "doctor of philosophy" after all

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by davessworks
I bought a Panasonic Tau 34" HDTV back when HDTVs where more or less new. I always knew I'd buy another TV somewhere down the road and that it would be better. Right now I have a 7403. Some day I'll buy another TV and it will be better. Not just a little bit better, a lot better. Probably 7 or 8 years from now. In 2015 I'll look back on 2008 and say to myself, "The difference between a Samsung, a Sony and a Philips in 2008 wasn't a whole lot relative to what I'm watching today".
Agreed. But I would say 3-5 years at the most. It's not like the old days when you bought a TV and did not buy a new one till the old one broke down and could not be fixed. New features are in the pipe that will make all current TV's obsolete in few years like your Tau.

straca

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder-rush
Most people complain about the atomatic resizing as a big problem when its not an issue...its just an option that you can choose from, I'll leave it at widescreen and problems solved..! Most TV's dont have this feature so whats the deal?
Nonsense. With the Sony I had I never had to change the format. Also, why to offer a feature, especially after supposedly fixing the issue that does not do what is supposed to design for?

Quote from Philips:
LC81ULP-1.12
Following issues were resolved
- Picture format changing too frequently during movie playback

Would like to know where they were resolved. In fantasyland? Definitively NOT on my set!

straca

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by straca
Nonsense. With the Sony I had I never had to change the format. Also, why to offer a feature, especially after supposedly fixing the issue that does not do what is supposed to design for?

Quote from Philips:
LC81ULP-1.12
Following issues were resolved
- Picture format changing too frequently during movie playback

Would like to know where they were resolved. In fantasyland? Definitively NOT on my set!
Same thing with version 1.13:

Quote:
Following issues were solved.
• Picture expanded vertically in digital channel.
Has anyone figured out what this purportedly fixed? Digital channels still don't expand vertically on my set.

bradleyt

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by icdragon
Philips 7403: Pros: DNM (in pans and nothing else), 120Hz, 2ms response time, 1" larger, $100 cheaper, 1 extra HDMI input, builtin tiny subwoofers sound better.
Cons: 120Hz/2ms does not show practical improvement over Samsung (in pixperpan or visual tests), horrid black levels (evidenced in photos), poor menu/interface design (options, customizability, service menu (none), backlight dimming), many reports of GLoD, power cycling, whatever else was out there (never had them myself), aspect ratio choice the same between HD and SD (so one or the other looks skewed, have to change each time), double handshake with HDMI takes too long to change sources, no no program data (ie, in an hour, this show'll be on, etc.).
Samsung 540: Pros: stunning black levels, adjustable backlight, looks like 1:1 in DVI over HDMI, highly customizable (especially color settings), VGA in, backlit remote on button press, service menu exists and is accessible.
Cons: $100 more after cupon at costco, 1" smaller, 60Hz/5ms RT rated, though testing shows no difference, sound not as good, though close with EQ tweaking and SRS on.
Both have upgradeable firmware, though only the Philips has gotten updates (and it still has problems :-( I had such high hopes for you, little (actually slightly bigger) buddy..). Thoughts?
I'd like to know what you really think. In the 540 forum you are complaining about the 540 ghosting and how bad the Samsung is, here you seem to be bitching about the Philips. Please make up your mind or are you just trying to stir things up a bit?
Jay

panard

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by panard
I'd like to know what you really think. In the 540 forum you are complaining about the 540 ghosting and how bad the Samsung is, here you seem to be bitching about the Philips. Please make up your mind or are you just trying to stir things up a bit?
Jay
Here is the link to your post at the Samsung 540 forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1027050&page=8

panard

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyt
Same thing with version 1.13:



Has anyone figured out what this purportedly fixed? Digital channels still don't expand vertically on my set.
It does for me and it was doing it in 1.11 as well - and it's anoying when on auto since it can't make up it's mind on the same source - like nbc nightly news.

4boko

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deetes
Ref. the booster... thanks, and now the obvious question.... do they really work?

Also, ppl have suggested a power line conditioner. Do those really help? I see prices ranging from just under $100 to $500 . What's the diff in layman's terms? Thanks in advance!

steve771

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by panard
I'd like to know what you really think. In the 540 forum you are complaining about the 540 ghosting and how bad the Samsung is, here you seem to be bitching about the Philips. Please make up your mind or are you just trying to stir things up a bit?
Jay
I'm not trying to stir things up, that is just my opinion changing over a few days' span. At first watching the final credits on the Sopranos, they seemed blurry, and thinking of the 5ms RT I attributed it to that. Then returned the disc. Forgot to check how it looked on the other TV. Got the next season now, and sure enough, the credits themselves are choppy in production, so that wasn't the TV, and now I am simply trying to make other people happy too by sharing a good find, that's all.

davess, if the options, resizing, and black levels don't bug you, then enjoy a fine set :-)
(assuming none of those GLoD and power cycling issues don't crop up..)

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I watched a Samsung LN52A550 last week for a few shows (on Verizon FIOS) and a SD DVD (upscaled to 1080i) and the quality was pretty good (ironically at another former Costco blown plasma owner who got 100% of his money back). The unit was almost a year old, so the technology was last years'. Many of my same nits about my Philips 52 7404 plagued the Samsung as well. There were still washed out faces on a lot of "live" shot shows and obvious motion blur. No discretely selectable inputs from the remote.

Ultimately, the Philips seemed to be as good, and the motion processing is better on paper. Also the Samsung did not support 24 FPS Blu-Ray (which is a feature I really would take over the any improvement this particular Samsung brings to the table. There is a definitely a noticeable improvement in motion blur when playing 24p Blu Ray content on the Philips).

I'm fairly certain the the newer 6 and 7 series Samsung LCDs are better on paper than the Philips, and are very well reviewed. For me, they are just not available at Costco (no extended warranty), and are a tiny bit pricier (even with no tax and free shipping). If suddenly they appear at Costco in the next couple of months or a larger Panasonic/Pioneer 1080p 58 inch plasma is available for under $3000, then I might be temped to swap the Philips out. But right now, I'm really happy the Philips.

rlay

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

i would, and do love to complain about the 4:3 ratio...my thoughts are..with all this technology why can't it fit my screen and look normal, not stretched.....we all went out and bought 46-47-even 52" tv's and more to get this amazing picture..then our 52" turns into a 36"........the tv's sold today are wide screen, and i think i should be able to view the whole tv screen i paid for, in widescreen, and fit perfectly///it's like buying a 3000 square foot home..but only living in 2000 square feet of it....my friends do not have this issue with cable, just direct tv..........i hate it......yes i want to see the actors the right way, not bloated, but why at the expense of my money for a larger size tv. bottom line if widescreen is the tv of chioce then accomodate the size, and fill the 16:9 ratio correctly

steele713

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

1.13 will hit the web tomorrow. it finally hit our internal site today. just needs a batch upload and it will be available

daveinga

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinga
1.13 will hit the web tomorrow. it finally hit our internal site today. just needs a batch upload and it will be available
Daveinga thanks for keeping us up to date! I think its awesome that you have gone out of your way many times to keep us in the loop with what is going on! I give you props man! Do you officially know what the 1.13 FW will fix? Glod, DNM issues, power cycling? Just curious if you knew? If not no worries, will see it tomorrow. Thanks again!

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinga
1.13 will hit the web tomorrow. it finally hit our internal site today. just needs a batch upload and it will be available
Thanks, Dave!
I guess I'll skip the downgrade to 1.07 (keeping my fingers crossed).
Was the restarting issue addressed or you still don't have idea if it's hw or sw problem?

4boko

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4boko
Thanks, Dave!
I guess I'll skip the downgrade to 1.07 (keeping my fingers crossed).
Was the restarting issue addressed or you still don't have idea if it's hw or sw problem?
4boko do you have FW 1.07? If not do you know where you can get it at? Because the Philips web site only shows the current FW, not older ones. Thanks

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
4boko do you have FW 1.07? If not do you know where you can get it at? Because the Philips web site only shows the current FW, not older ones. Thanks
yes, it's in this thread posted/reposted numerous times.

4boko

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinga
1.13 will hit the web tomorrow. it finally hit our internal site today. just needs a batch upload and it will be available
The best news I've heard in this thread. Now to hopefully come off the fence if this 1.13 fixes the issues.

HoOn

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoOn
The best news I've heard in this thread. Now to hopefully come off the fence if this 1.13 fixes the issues.
Agreed! Awesome news! Now if we only knew what exactly it fixes then we could truly come off the fence.

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by slhaas
The green line and the HDNM will be. I dont know about the power issue, but then again I've never experienced it.
Really? I thought Philips was never able to reproduce the GLoD. I understood that there was "hope" that GLoD is cured by fixing the DNM on/off problem (since GLoD only seems to appear when the set is in limbo - says off, but is actually partially on) which occurs when the set is powered off while DNM is off. When it is powered on again, it is in this limbo mode. Toggling DNM (for me) eliminates the GLoD until the next power off. It is logical that fixing the DNM on/off problem will cure GLoD. But, tests will have to confirm that.

I hope you're right and they definitively fixed the GLoD. Personally, I just have it set on widescreen. So, the scaling problem is not a problem for me. Nor is the power cycling a problem for me (yet) as I have not experienced it. Could this be related to the scaling problem?

Anyway, we'll all find out tomorrow when the new firmware hits the website.

Njmurvin

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by steele713
i would, and do love to complain about the 4:3 ratio...my thoughts are..with all this technology why can't it fit my screen and look normal, not stretched.....we all went out and bought 46-47-even 52" tv's and more to get this amazing picture..then our 52" turns into a 36"........the tv's sold today are wide screen, and i think i should be able to view the whole tv screen i paid for, in widescreen, and fit perfectly///it's like buying a 3000 square foot home..but only living in 2000 square feet of it....my friends do not have this issue with cable, just direct tv..........i hate it......yes i want to see the actors the right way, not bloated, but why at the expense of my money for a larger size tv. bottom line if widescreen is the tv of chioce then accomodate the size, and fill the 16:9 ratio correctly
I should first point out that it's not a feature of the television, but of the source, be it broadcast, DVD, blu-ray, VHS, game or other. Technology can't make something that is 4" by 3" fit in a 16"x9" frame (for example) without distortion. You would have to stretch everything 3 times to make it fit. The stretching can be done, but imagine drawing a picture on a deflated balloon. Then stretch it out 3x and look at the picture again. There isnt as much clarity and is distortion. You can also zoom in on the picture, but when you zoom in on anything, it's only as good as the original quality is at that zoom rate. If the original source isnt exactly 4x3 or your trying to achieve a final result of something that's not exactly 16X9, then the ratio of magnifaction changes some and now you are looking at may not fit eactly so things need to be distorted to make the proportions work. Technology has helped this a lot, but stretching zooming, etc. still needs to happen, and doing anything else would require you to either chop off parts of the image, shrink it to make it fit, or even somehow fill in blank areas where there is no image from the source to do so. We don't have the technology to put more stuff into a picture that doesnt already exist in the source on the fly, so really there aren't any other choices.

To use your own example... if you buy a 3000 sq. ft. home, and only buy enough furniture to fill 2000 feet worth and have it look nice, then 1000ft will have to be empty... OR you can spread the furniture out more and have it look a little strange... OR you have to get more furniture to fill that extra 1000 feet. The same is true with the TV. if you have a 16x9 60" TV, but you have a show or DVD that is 4x3, then you can only get as many inches as can fit in the 4x3 ration on the TV unless you stretch it to make it fit (and look strange) or you have to get a different source that is larger to fill the the full screen in the correct ratio. You can't blame the house for someone not putting enough or the right sized furniture in it, just as you cant blame TV or the TV's technology for the right source not being provided to it for the best possible picture.

slhaas

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Njmurvin
Really? I thought Philips was never able to reproduce the GLoD. I understood that there was "hope" that GLoD is cured by fixing the DNM on/off problem (since GLoD only seems to appear when the set is in limbo - says off, but is actually partially on) which occurs when the set is powered off while DNM is off. When it is powered on again, it is in this limbo mode. Toggling DNM (for me) eliminates the GLoD until the next power off. It is logical that fixing the DNM on/off problem will cure GLoD. But, tests will have to confirm that.

I hope you're right and they definitively fixed the GLoD. Personally, I just have it set on widescreen. So, the scaling problem is not a problem for me. Nor is the power cycling a problem for me (yet) as I have not experienced it. Could this be related to the scaling problem?

Anyway, we'll all find out tomorrow when the new firmware hits the website.
I guess it's all a hopeful thing, but testing has shown it to not have appeared with 1.13 yet, so that should correct it... hopefully.

slhaas

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by slhaas
I guess it's all a hopeful thing, but testing has shown it to not have appeared with 1.13 yet, so that should correct it... hopefully.
Even so, I would feel better that they fixed it if they had been able to reproduce it in the first place. If they weren't able to reproduce it with the old firmware, it means little that they don't see it with the new firmware. Still, I believe if they fixed the DNM on/off issue, they likely fixed it in the process.

Njmurvin

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Has anyone used the Dolby Digital output on the TV for connection to a home theater system? Does it pass the signal at 5.1 to the receiver?

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I have found that it does pass the 5.1 signal and my receiver recognizes it as Dolby Ex. What is puzzling to me is the fact that there is certain difference in sound quality when I use the optical out from Explorer 8300HD cable box rather than the coax tv-out. I tend to bias my opinion toward the direct optical out.

flydeep

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
Has anyone used the Dolby Digital output on the TV for connection to a home theater system? Does it pass the signal at 5.1 to the receiver?
Yes - that's what I'm currently doing and for now it greatly simplifies my decision as to whetherto buy a new receiver or not. Since I can use the TV as a switch for HDMI inputs I don't need a receiver upgrade. When I buy a Blu Ray player I will pay a little more and get one with on board decoding and 5.1/7.1 analog out to avoid needing to worry about receiver upgrades also.

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic
If you mean the 7603 line, I'm a big supporter of Ambilight. It's great to watch a movie in the dark and for a bedroom set where you probably do even more dark viewing, it's even better.

I have a 42" 9631 plasma and I want to use it in my bedroom because I didn't think I could get a top-notch Philips for the living room with Ambilight and if I only had 1 Ambilight set, felt it would be better used in the bedroom. If the 7603's are available here -- maybe it's just a few residual sets ? -- that's great news.

I really would love to get the 9000 series Ambilight/non-Ambilight, but I won't complain.
Phanatic: here's a review of the 42PFL7603D - ambilight or course but wil it ever get to North America?????

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/re...42in-LCD-TV/p1

wazymk

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

1.13 is now up!

http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/d...=Link_Software

i like guitars

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinga
Well if you have everything coming in from one HDMI, you will need multiple settings per input, which is what i guess you want.

Sad news is that
a) i dont know anything about the Q529 chassis (europe only), and
b) i doubt it will get implemented in this years production

however you do have a valid point... i never really thought about it...

David
You'r right it is not implemented in the new models...BUT as this should be the same with all the models:

- Where are the Smart Settings stored / what is the filename (Parameterfile)
- It definitly should be in one of the files included in the ONE ZIP File. Can You mail / upload to rapid share an example of the ONE ZIP....

It can also be a ONEzip of another model....

Thanks Richard

ggggg

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazymk
Phanatic: here's a review of the 42PFL7603D - ambilight or course but wil it ever get to North America?????

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/re...42in-LCD-TV/p1
Interesting that the UK version of the set is so different from the U.S. version (even forgetting about Ambilight). For instance, the review says that the 7603 only uses Pixel Plus 3 HD as its engine, while the North American version (according to the box, anyway) uses Perfect Pixel Engine, which is the Bigger-Faster-Stronger technology.

Then they talk about setting your picture options for each input. Ohhh, if only that were possible.

Oh, and then the implication of levels of DNM (they talk about setting it to "Min" which would suggest the option of "Off" "Min" and "Max" at the least).

Sure sounds like we in the US got the better HD engine, but got the shaft on the rest of the software driving the set!

Oneota

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Philips site finally released what they have made of the 7603 series 42 and 47" with ambilight with $100 off right now, I talked to several philips representatives and they say when these sets go, that'll be the last of the ambilights for the US and the supply is VERY limited. I'm just waiting for mine to get delivered now. just go to www.store.philips.com

jcurrent

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Ever since I bought my TV several months ago I have been plagued by the DNM problem and mysterious blinking green light appearing at the top center of the screen. It seems to me the green line would start showing up when I went to a channel where the quality of video was so-so. It seemed like the TV tried to correct the quality too much and the processing unit just became overwhelmed. Thats when I would notice jerky movements on the screen and the green line would start appearing. As soon as I changed my video format (sports, movie, personal, etc) The problem would resolve itself and would return intermititantly. I still have standard def and wonder if this wasn't contributing to some of the problem. I think the TV tried to do too much video correction?

Last night I installed firmware version 1.13 on my Ecotv 5603. Finally it looks like both problems have been resolved!!! It has been a horrible 2 months watching TV with the mysterious green line and having the DNM problem. The picture is now what I would have expected when I originally purchased the TV several months ago. Thank goodness this firmware release was finally issued!

gutsco37

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

i can't wait for the results of the new firmware.

HoOn

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Anybody try the 1.13 firmware yet on a 52" 7403? I'm traveling and won't be able to apply it until Friday night. The readme doesn't mention the green line specifically, but it does mention a fix about bit blurr/scaling artifacts. It also doesn't mention the spontaneous shutdown (unless it has something to do with waking up from Standby mode).

rlay

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Great news gutsco37! So it sounds like GloD is DEAD! Thats what we like! Has the scaling issues gone away with the TV being set to automatic (where it zooms vertically)? Has anyone else had success yet with FW 1.13! I cant wait to get home to download the new FW!

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

now that the SW is posted, i can come back to the forum!!!

daveinga

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Dave, what was the fix for "Picture expanded vertically in digital channel" listed on the update history supposed to fix? I just installed SW 1.13 and don't see any change...auto or widescreen picture formats still won't expand a 4:3 image vertically on digital channels like they do on analog channels.

bradleyt

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinga
now that the SW is posted, i can come back to the forum!!!
Daveinga! Again hats off for keeping us up to date! It shows that I only have like 5 or 6 posts but I have read every single 2000+ reply on this thread, and have been impressed that you daveinga have always tried on answer questions and have been our liaison with Philips. Thanks for taking the time to help us out! Tell your boss I said to give you a raise! Your defiantly going above and beyond the call of duty!

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyt
Dave, what was the fix for "Picture expanded vertically in digital channel" listed on the update history supposed to fix? I just installed SW 1.13 and don't see any change...auto or widescreen picture formats still won't expand a 4:3 image vertically on digital channels like they do on analog channels.
bradleyt did you or anyone else have problems with the TV picture format changing too frequently during movie playback? If so is it now gone with SW 1.13 update? It was supposedly addressed in SW 1.12, which is included in SW 1.13 right? Correct me if I am wrong.

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
bradleyt did you or anyone else have problems with the TV picture format changing too frequently during movie playback? If so is it now gone with SW 1.13 update? It was supposedly addressed in SW 1.12, which is included in SW 1.13 right? Correct me if I am wrong.
correct

daveinga

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinga
now that the SW is posted, i can come back to the forum!!!
Well, I don't think most (all?) people on here thought you were to blame for any of this. Just the frustration showing thru. Anyway thanks for being here to answer some questions. I've never understood why companies don't put someone out there, keeping customers up to date. Just seems to be good customer service to me.

Dave, is there any word that this update would fix the power cycling issue? Thanks!

Also, the link above is for the 47"... is this the same for the 52"? (I'm looking to get that one next month)

steve771

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
bradleyt did you or anyone else have problems with the TV picture format changing too frequently during movie playback?
Yes, I noticed the constant picture format changes before, but sorry I didn't have time this morning before work to check out how well that works now. I didn't notice any changes in the 10 minutes I watched, but then I wasn't watching a movie.

bradleyt

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Great job from philips.
GLoD is dead!
Now if that fixes somhow magically the recycle issue that would be perfect.
This and makde the set strech the picture horizontaly if the user selects automatic for the picture format I'll be a happy camper.
Seems like DNM is bit not that aggressive on not so good vide sources where there kind of shadow of the objects, which I think fools the DNM and creates the halo effect.
And after running some tests on my laptop and DVP 5990 - I think I'll keep the dvd player.

4boko

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve771
Also, the link above is for the 47"... is this the same for the 52"? (I'm looking to get that one next month)
The firmware is apparently the same as the 1.13 version is referenced for the 52" model as well.

Njmurvin

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4boko
Great job from philips.
GLoD is dead!
Now if that fixes somhow magically the recycle issue that would be perfect.
This and makde the set strech the picture horizontaly if the user selects automatic for the picture format I'll be a happy camper.
Seems like DNM is bit not that aggressive on not so good vide sources where there kind of shadow of the objects, which I think fools the DNM and creates the halo effect.
And after running some tests on my laptop and DVP 5990 - I think I'll keep the dvd player.
4boko are you saying that now DNM is not as aggressive as it was? Which is good? or bad? Also how do you like your DVP 5990? Dose the Easy Link work? How is the PQ with the DVP 5990? I just bought one but haven't hooked it up yet thats why I ask.

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

@bradleyt

Those images you posted look like a 720p source unscaled. That is a 16:9 image, but since your TV is 1080p, it won't touch the top or the sides. I'm surprised automatic and widescreen don't zoom it up to fill the screen however. Perhaps your cable/satellite company are broadcasting a 720p image in a 1080i/p format?

It's a little hard to tell where the black bars end and the tv bezel begins in your images though. If you could maybe shine a light on towards the tv to get some glare on the bezel and retake the images, I could do a few measurements and give a little bit more of a definitive analysis.

Actually, if you take the images with a head on flash, that'd probably be just as good for getting a glare transition line between the glossy bezel and the satin screen.

parallaxtz

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
4boko are you saying that now DNM is not as aggressive as it was? Which is good? or bad? Also how do you like your DVP 5990? Dose the Easy Link work? How is the PQ with the DVP 5990? I just bought one but haven't hooked it up yet thats why I ask.
I should've siad more fool proof around objects that have kind of a shadow - I'm talking about 480i images from dvd that is upscalled from the dvp5990 or my laptop.
Yep easy link works but you have to remember to switch the source when you turn it off if you don't want your tv to be turned off as well.
There is small issue where the dvd changes the source on the tv but disk is spining and tv needs 2-3 secs to sync up with it...
So you just miss few secs...
Other than that I like it
PQ is almost as good as my laptop 1080i componet link if not better sometimes.
The only issue that dvd has is the view pictures in HD jpeg - they're very jagged. I don't have pictures formated in HD but the tv itself is doing much better job and actually turning the feature off almost fix the things...

4boko

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Does the 7403 is perfect pixel or pixel plus 3? The site says its perfect pixel on the initial description of the set but when you go to features it says is a pixel plus 3 display..

Thunder-rush

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Perfect Pixel HD engine

cbh0531

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

So the new SW doesn't fix the power cycling issue? I was about to post that my set hasn't done it since I first posted about it. But it just did it while watching a dvd. I'm going to be downloading 1.13 now and will install it when the kids are done with their movie.

Calla lily

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calla lily
So the new SW doesn't fix the power cycling issue? I was about to post that my set hasn't done it since I first posted about it. But it just did it while watching a dvd. I'm going to be downloading 1.13 now and will install it when the kids are done with their movie.
Calla Lily how long has it been between its last cycle? Have you noticed a pattern of what could have caused the cycle? TV on for long period of time, econo mode on?

Just throwing this out there, but I spoke with my father today who is an electrician and said it could be a power fluctuation, he said some electronics such as TVs and Computers a very sensitive to power fluctuation so if there is a slight variance then the device may cycle. He got pretty technical with me explaining how it is a usually a voltage fluctuation which could be causing the cycling. (He went on and on..) He said to try a power conditioner explanation at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner. I also did a little looking on the internet and found a very similar post on AVS forms:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi.../t-776257.html

This is what one reply suggested:

"Ha! I know the fix to this one! It's a power problem! Buy a surge protector that conditions the power (I bought a Panamax 4300) and I bet your problems will be solved!

I had this problem with both of my Samsung DLP's. Recently forgot about the problem and moved my Panamax upstairs to the bedroom.....all of the sudden my Samsung started shutting off...sometimes more than once a night.

Reinstalled my Panamax and haven't had a shutdown since. Remember, you need the power filtering circuit....not just the surge protector.

Please fill us in on just exactly what power conditioning is. This should be interesting. "

I don't know if this is your problem or others but my Father said it is something to look into.

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calla lily
So the new SW doesn't fix the power cycling issue? I was about to post that my set hasn't done it since I first posted about it. But it just did it while watching a dvd. I'm going to be downloading 1.13 now and will install it when the kids are done with their movie.
I am thinking its a FW issue when i got my set it had the 1.10 FW and it cycled on/off once. I rolled back to the 1.07 FW and it hasn't happened yet. I am going to install the 1.13 FW later i hope all/most of the problems were fixed with this new FW

slyguy10

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
Calla Lily how long has it been between its last cycle? Have you noticed a pattern of what could have caused the cycle? TV on for long period of time, econo mode on?

Just throwing this out there, but I spoke with my father today who is an electrician and said it could be a power fluctuation, he said some electronics such as TVs and Computers a very sensitive to power fluctuation so if there is a slight variance then the device may cycle. He got pretty technical with me explaining how it is a usually a voltage fluctuation which could be causing the cycling. (He went on and on..) He said to try a power conditioner explanation at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner. I also did a little looking on the internet and found a very similar post on AVS forms:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi.../t-776257.html

This is what one reply suggested:

"Ha! I know the fix to this one! It's a power problem! Buy a surge protector that conditions the power (I bought a Panamax 4300) and I bet your problems will be solved!

I had this problem with both of my Samsung DLP's. Recently forgot about the problem and moved my Panamax upstairs to the bedroom.....all of the sudden my Samsung started shutting off...sometimes more than once a night.

Reinstalled my Panamax and haven't had a shutdown since. Remember, you need the power filtering circuit....not just the surge protector.

Please fill us in on just exactly what power conditioning is. This should be interesting. "

I don't know if this is your problem or others but my Father said it is something to look into.
J Money that a very good point. I guess we will see soon if its a FW problem or is it a power fluctuation problem

slyguy10

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

The last time it shut itself off and then back on was around June 21st when I first posted about it. It had happened a few times before that and then not again until right now. I'm on 1.09. Before it had only happened while watching tv through the Dish receiver, but just now was watching a dvd with our Philips 3960. Our tv is on for hours at a time throughout the day so I don't think that has to do with it (on personal mode with most features on) since it's not a daily thing. I have no idea what surge protector thing we have. Dh bought it new when we got the tv and it's back underneath our stand. I'm sure it was cheap. We can also connect phone lines and cable lines to it. When it cycles, the receiver/dvd player stay on. I can find no pattern.

Calla lily

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Money99
Calla Lily how long has it been between its last cycle? Have you noticed a pattern of what could have caused the cycle? TV on for long period of time, econo mode on?

Just throwing this out there, but I spoke with my father today who is an electrician and said it could be a power fluctuation, he said some electronics such as TVs and Computers a very sensitive to power fluctuation so if there is a slight variance then the device may cycle. He got pretty technical with me explaining how it is a usually a voltage fluctuation which could be causing the cycling. (He went on and on..) He said to try a power conditioner explanation at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner. I also did a little looking on the internet and found a very similar post on AVS forms:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi.../t-776257.html

This is what one reply suggested:

"Ha! I know the fix to this one! It's a power problem! Buy a surge protector that conditions the power (I bought a Panamax 4300) and I bet your problems will be solved!

I had this problem with both of my Samsung DLP's. Recently forgot about the problem and moved my Panamax upstairs to the bedroom.....all of the sudden my Samsung started shutting off...sometimes more than once a night.

Reinstalled my Panamax and haven't had a shutdown since. Remember, you need the power filtering circuit....not just the surge protector.

Please fill us in on just exactly what power conditioning is. This should be interesting. "

I don't know if this is your problem or others but my Father said it is something to look into.
I myself have been using the Monster Surge protector with their clean power technology and I have never had the power issue once and I have used my panel a lot.

SteveCaron

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCaron
I myself have been using the Monster Surge protector with their clean power technology and I have never had the power issue once and I have used my panel a lot.
What firmware are you on?

Calla lily

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Here you go, parallaxtz! Thanks for your help. These are hopefully a little better, but still only from my camera phone. Both sets of pictures are from an HD channel (SciFiHD) - the first set of 4 was an original 4:3 image and the other seems to be a 16:9 letterboxed image. The TV says it's receiving a 1080i signal, and using SW 1.13. My recollection is the TV behaves the same when watching HD over the air, so I don't think it's related to my cable provider.

bradleyt

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Second set (16:9 letterboxed)

bradleyt

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCaron
I myself have been using the Monster Surge protector with their clean power technology and I have never had the power issue once and I have used my panel a lot.
Calla lily and others I think it may be worth trying to get a device like Steve's, again I don't know if this will fix the problem or not but dad is convinced that the problem is "power fluctuations." From the same AVS form I posted above someone explains what power conditioning is:

"02-17-07, 09:55 PM
Please fill us in on just exactly what power conditioning is. This should be interesting.

Okay, I'll bite. I cannot explain what it is. Here's what I can tell you...I had an HLP5086 that kept shutting off. It started happening after I moved my television plug from my Panamax 5100 (or could be 5300) to a standard Panamax surge protector (with no filtering circuits). I bought a new Panamax 4300 to plug my television into and walla, the problem went away.

Two years go by and I buy a new HLN 5087. I plug my new TV into the Panamax 4300 and experience no problems. At Christmas I buy a Vizio for my upstairs bedroom. I decide to move my Panamax 4300 to the upstairs....I had forgotten why I bought the Panamax in the first place (it sucks getting old)!

Anyway, my HLN 5087 started shutting off on it's own and I remembered whole incident from a couple of years earlier. I reinstalled my Panamax 4300 and the TV hasn't shut off on it's own since.

My explaination, in non scientific terms, is that the Samsung DLPs are very sensitive to power fluctuations or noise, which causes them to shut down. A simple solution would be to try a protector that has a filtering circuit to see if it works for you! If you have doubts, buy from somewhere that has a 30 day return policy (like Crutchfield) if you don't believe it will work. As I mentioned previously my Samsung TV's started shutting down when I plugged them into the standard Panamax surge protector, so it needs to be one that has the filtering circuits."

More Food for thought. Good luck Calla lily!

J-Money99

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

*Ok, reinstalling fixed it*

I just installed 1.13 and now I can't get any of the menu/format/source/mode options to display. When I press the buttons on the remote it appears to cycle through the options (it's cycling through the sources for sure) but nothing is displaying on screen. So I can't get in to turn off DNM or anything. I'm going to try to reinstall and see if that helps.

Calla lily

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calla lily
What firmware are you on?
I've always remained on the 1.07 that came with my 42 inch 7403.

SteveCaron

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I am having trouble getting my 47 inch 7403 to recognize my USB drive in order to download the new software update. I followed the instructions in the download, but do you think the fact that my USB drive is encrypted would impact this? New restrictions on my work computer require encryption for USB drives.

DbleDmndK2

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

you need fat32 formatting for the tv to recognize, use windows explorer to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DbleDmndK2
I am having trouble getting my 47 inch 7403 to recognize my USB drive in order to download the new software update. I followed the instructions in the download, but do you think the fact that my USB drive is encrypted would impact this? New restrictions on my work computer require encryption for USB drives.

flydeep

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I updated the firmware to 1.13 from 1.09 and did not appear to help the power cycles for me. Was watching OTA SD and cycled about an hour after the update. I had only noticed it restarting couple of times in the past. I may try the 1.07 again or see if someone tries a line conditioner to see if that helps their problem.

jptest

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jptest
I updated the firmware to 1.13 from 1.09 and did not appear to help the power cycles for me. Was watching OTA SD and cycled about an hour after the update. I had only noticed it restarting couple of times in the past. I may try the 1.07 again or see if someone tries a line conditioner to see if that helps their problem.
You should see if you can get ahold of a back up power regulator to see if the issue is with the TV or with the wiring where you live. If you're getting dips in power the TV may be sensitive to it and shut off, or even flash off & come back on. I've had my 42" since April, have no power back up on it at all, have tried all of the firmware versions and have not ever had a power cycle issue, but I have had all of the other bugs pop up.

slhaas

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I just updated the FW to 1.13 and turned on all the filters and I have to say that the DNM is much better then 1.11. I was not getting motion sickness. There was no GLOD at all. And I still have not seen the recycle of the TV yet.

dpsol

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I've had the Audio Hiss problem twice tonight.

Once from HDMI.
Once from S-Video.

Running 1.13.

....sigh....

Oneota

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Is it just me, or does "active control without light sensor" seem much less effective now (1.13 firmware). The only difference I notice between AC w/o light sensor, and no AC is that w/o light sensor seems to enhance colors at the expense of details. I can't see a difference in the backlight. This is with dynamic contrast on, it is a different story with it off.

Not that im complaning, i'd much rather have AC off with a seperate backlight control.

cbh0531

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Ok, im starting to suspect someone stuck a gamma correction in the firmware update, and neglected to tell us lol. Or maybe its just me.

Im not seeing that annoying contrast blowout that would occur on faces in dark scenes ether. This is with AC off and DC on. And the backlight doesn't seem as bright when AC is off either.

Can anyone else confirm this? or am I just insane...

cbh0531

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcurrent
Philips site finally released what they have made of the 7603 series 42 and 47" with ambilight with $100 off right now, I talked to several philips representatives and they say when these sets go, that'll be the last of the ambilights for the US and the supply is VERY limited. I'm just waiting for mine to get delivered now. just go to www.store.philips.com
Rumor has it the "supply" is 100 per 42" and 100 per 47". Talk about a limited edition - if you want one you'd better buy one now. I'm gonna run out and get mine signed by daveinga (just kidding! but heaven knows he deserves his 15 minutes of fame!!

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by davessworks
Rumor has it the "supply" is 100 per 42" and 100 per 47". Talk about a limited edition - if you want one you'd better buy one now. I'm gonna run out and get mine signed by daveinga (just kidding! but heaven knows he deserves his 15 minutes of fame!!
They're great sets but size-wise I was hoping to get a 52".....maybe Philips/Funai will have something over 50" with Ambilight later this year or early-2009.

PhilipsPhanatic

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

icdragon - went to the links you posted but frankly it's incredibly difficult to understand what you're on about. By all means take your 7403 back - you obviously don't like it. And good luck with the Samsung. If you have any useful side by side measurements please do post but otherwise . . . well you know . .

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Hehe, all right, thought the ideas were there, maybe structure was lacking. *shrugs* Just a heads up for anyone who may be suffering with the Philips.

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

No problem - I just can't quite figure out what you've done. If you could add a little more practical comparison and state what the test signals are it would help. Perhaps drive each with an actual video signal and control the experiment somewhat - either by splitting the input so it's theoretically identical or use exactly the same photo settings . . . Also record how each set is configured (contrast, brightness etc etc)

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Camera settings are there, feeds are specified (pixperan and pure black backgrounds, my first post was just credits shots from a rip playing through PC/VLC), Samsung is calibrated to the settings I just linked to, Philips has DNM off, brightness turned way down in a failed attempt to get decent black levels. The rest doesn't really affect the performance of the panel, as I understand it.

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Maybe it's just me - I took another look at your posts and if you put me in a room with your test screens and the equipment you used to perform these tests I couldn't repeat them based on what you've posted. Furthermore it's not clear what you like or dislike. The only compelling picture I see is the black level - but the 540 is displaying a graphic while the 7403 isn't. Again, I don't know what the settings of each set are (brightness, contrast, dynamic contrast, active control etc. etc.). In your "black level" test are you feeding the set a signal or not. If not, how do you know the set is actually interpreting the input as "black"? Forgive my probing - I dare say you have a point and maybe I'm being pedantic. Probably comes from teaching engineering to Duke undergraduates for a few years in a prior life.

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Aaagh, I'm a physics major and sometimes the scientific method in its entirety bores me. I always did crappy in my lab classes because I omitted details like these :-D The Philips has a black screen provided through HDMI by PC, and for the sake of simplicity I just let the Samsung without a feed, same blacks as with though. The Philips displays a bright blue screen when feedless. Fantastic. Oops, I just read your final sentence! Hahaha, yes you do remind me of my lab professor :-) I TA'ed labs, but expected more from the students than I would have done myself. Settings for the samsung are specified in the link for calibration I posted three posts back, settings for the philips are cont 65, bri 60, color 60, tint -2, sharpness 3, color temp normal, off off off off, on with light. I think I arrived at that brightness by finding the setting that dimmed the backlight the most, and that was the threshold below which it would deepen blacks no more, just dim colors. If that makes sense. It does in my head. :-)

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Philips 7403: Pros: DNM (in pans and nothing else), 120Hz, 2ms response time, 1" larger, $100 cheaper, 1 extra HDMI input, builtin tiny subwoofers sound better.
Cons: 120Hz/2ms does not show practical improvement over Samsung (in pixperpan or visual tests), horrid black levels (evidenced in photos), poor menu/interface design (options, customizability, service menu (none), backlight dimming), many reports of GLoD, power cycling, whatever else was out there (never had them myself), aspect ratio choice the same between HD and SD (so one or the other looks skewed, have to change each time), double handshake with HDMI takes too long to change sources, no no program data (ie, in an hour, this show'll be on, etc.).
Samsung 540: Pros: stunning black levels, adjustable backlight, looks like 1:1 in DVI over HDMI, highly customizable (especially color settings), VGA in, backlit remote on button press, service menu exists and is accessible.
Cons: $100 more after cupon at costco, 1" smaller, 60Hz/5ms RT rated, though testing shows no difference, sound not as good, though close with EQ tweaking and SRS on.
Both have upgradeable firmware, though only the Philips has gotten updates (and it still has problems :-( I had such high hopes for you, little (actually slightly bigger) buddy..). Thoughts?

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by icdragon
Hahaha, yes you do remind me of my lab professor :-)

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by icdragon
Thoughts?
I bought a Panasonic Tau 34" HDTV back when HDTVs where more or less new. I always knew I'd buy another TV somewhere down the road and that it would be better. Right now I have a 7403. Some day I'll buy another TV and it will be better. Not just a little bit better, a lot better. Probably 7 or 8 years from now. In 2015 I'll look back on 2008 and say to myself, "The difference between a Samsung, a Sony and a Philips in 2008 wasn't a whole lot relative to what I'm watching today".
Maybe a little philosophical but I am a "doctor of philosophy" after all

davessworks

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by davessworks
I bought a Panasonic Tau 34" HDTV back when HDTVs where more or less new. I always knew I'd buy another TV somewhere down the road and that it would be better. Right now I have a 7403. Some day I'll buy another TV and it will be better. Not just a little bit better, a lot better. Probably 7 or 8 years from now. In 2015 I'll look back on 2008 and say to myself, "The difference between a Samsung, a Sony and a Philips in 2008 wasn't a whole lot relative to what I'm watching today".
Agreed. But I would say 3-5 years at the most. It's not like the old days when you bought a TV and did not buy a new one till the old one broke down and could not be fixed. New features are in the pipe that will make all current TV's obsolete in few years like your Tau.

straca

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder-rush
Most people complain about the atomatic resizing as a big problem when its not an issue...its just an option that you can choose from, I'll leave it at widescreen and problems solved..! Most TV's dont have this feature so whats the deal?
Nonsense. With the Sony I had I never had to change the format. Also, why to offer a feature, especially after supposedly fixing the issue that does not do what is supposed to design for?

Quote from Philips:
LC81ULP-1.12
Following issues were resolved
- Picture format changing too frequently during movie playback

Would like to know where they were resolved. In fantasyland? Definitively NOT on my set!

straca

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by straca
Nonsense. With the Sony I had I never had to change the format. Also, why to offer a feature, especially after supposedly fixing the issue that does not do what is supposed to design for?

Quote from Philips:
LC81ULP-1.12
Following issues were resolved
- Picture format changing too frequently during movie playback

Would like to know where they were resolved. In fantasyland? Definitively NOT on my set!
Same thing with version 1.13:

Quote:
Following issues were solved.
• Picture expanded vertically in digital channel.
Has anyone figured out what this purportedly fixed? Digital channels still don't expand vertically on my set.

bradleyt

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by icdragon
Philips 7403: Pros: DNM (in pans and nothing else), 120Hz, 2ms response time, 1" larger, $100 cheaper, 1 extra HDMI input, builtin tiny subwoofers sound better.
Cons: 120Hz/2ms does not show practical improvement over Samsung (in pixperpan or visual tests), horrid black levels (evidenced in photos), poor menu/interface design (options, customizability, service menu (none), backlight dimming), many reports of GLoD, power cycling, whatever else was out there (never had them myself), aspect ratio choice the same between HD and SD (so one or the other looks skewed, have to change each time), double handshake with HDMI takes too long to change sources, no no program data (ie, in an hour, this show'll be on, etc.).
Samsung 540: Pros: stunning black levels, adjustable backlight, looks like 1:1 in DVI over HDMI, highly customizable (especially color settings), VGA in, backlit remote on button press, service menu exists and is accessible.
Cons: $100 more after cupon at costco, 1" smaller, 60Hz/5ms RT rated, though testing shows no difference, sound not as good, though close with EQ tweaking and SRS on.
Both have upgradeable firmware, though only the Philips has gotten updates (and it still has problems :-( I had such high hopes for you, little (actually slightly bigger) buddy..). Thoughts?
I'd like to know what you really think. In the 540 forum you are complaining about the 540 ghosting and how bad the Samsung is, here you seem to be bitching about the Philips. Please make up your mind or are you just trying to stir things up a bit?
Jay

panard

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by panard
I'd like to know what you really think. In the 540 forum you are complaining about the 540 ghosting and how bad the Samsung is, here you seem to be bitching about the Philips. Please make up your mind or are you just trying to stir things up a bit?
Jay
Here is the link to your post at the Samsung 540 forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1027050&page=8

panard

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyt
Same thing with version 1.13:



Has anyone figured out what this purportedly fixed? Digital channels still don't expand vertically on my set.
It does for me and it was doing it in 1.11 as well - and it's anoying when on auto since it can't make up it's mind on the same source - like nbc nightly news.

4boko

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deetes
Ref. the booster... thanks, and now the obvious question.... do they really work?

Also, ppl have suggested a power line conditioner. Do those really help? I see prices ranging from just under $100 to $500 . What's the diff in layman's terms? Thanks in advance!

steve771

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by panard
I'd like to know what you really think. In the 540 forum you are complaining about the 540 ghosting and how bad the Samsung is, here you seem to be bitching about the Philips. Please make up your mind or are you just trying to stir things up a bit?
Jay
I'm not trying to stir things up, that is just my opinion changing over a few days' span. At first watching the final credits on the Sopranos, they seemed blurry, and thinking of the 5ms RT I attributed it to that. Then returned the disc. Forgot to check how it looked on the other TV. Got the next season now, and sure enough, the credits themselves are choppy in production, so that wasn't the TV, and now I am simply trying to make other people happy too by sharing a good find, that's all.

davess, if the options, resizing, and black levels don't bug you, then enjoy a fine set :-)
(assuming none of those GLoD and power cycling issues don't crop up..)

icdragon

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I watched a Samsung LN52A550 last week for a few shows (on Verizon FIOS) and a SD DVD (upscaled to 1080i) and the quality was pretty good (ironically at another former Costco blown plasma owner who got 100% of his money back). The unit was almost a year old, so the technology was last years'. Many of my same nits about my Philips 52 7404 plagued the Samsung as well. There were still washed out faces on a lot of "live" shot shows and obvious motion blur. No discretely selectable inputs from the remote.

Ultimately, the Philips seemed to be as good, and the motion processing is better on paper. Also the Samsung did not support 24 FPS Blu-Ray (which is a feature I really would take over the any improvement this particular Samsung brings to the table. There is a definitely a noticeable improvement in motion blur when playing 24p Blu Ray content on the Philips).

I'm fairly certain the the newer 6 and 7 series Samsung LCDs are better on paper than the Philips, and are very well reviewed. For me, they are just not available at Costco (no extended warranty), and are a tiny bit pricier (even with no tax and free shipping). If suddenly they appear at Costco in the next couple of months or a larger Panasonic/Pioneer 1080p 58 inch plasma is available for under $3000, then I might be temped to swap the Philips out. But right now, I'm really happy the Philips.

rlay

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlay
Can someone scan and post this coupon somewhere? If I can walk in with a visual aid, maybe they will either find it or realize that I'll return the TV otherwise.
Hope this helps.

straca

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

I have the coupon book and do not intend to use this coupon. Let me know if you want me to snail mail it to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlay
Went to Costco, asked for a coupon book, and the Philips was not in it. Although, the last date on the all of coupons was August 3rd....as were the ones I had at home. I'll keep an eye out for next month's, but if I don't get the discount, I may be happy with this set....unless Costco suddenly stocks a better TV for a comparable price in the next 80 days. They had a couple of newly arrived Samsungs, but not in 50+ inches.

The Bravia and the Philips where close enough to each other that I could do a comparison. While I liked the styling on the Bravia a bit better, the difference in picture quality was negligible...certainly adjusting both sets could probably make them look identical. I'd still have an issue with my center channel speaker (I'm going to have to buy a tall stand for it so that it can sit above the screen, if I stick to the Philips).

The Pioneer Kuro 5010 they stocked solves my center channel issue, and has the best contrast and deepest blacks of all of the TVs there, but I've grown fond of the extra 2 inches and potentially seven hundred dollar price difference. Faces looked perfect on this TV, but again, I'm not sure if its worth the price/schlep'ing hassle.

flydeep

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by radphi
Why would you need the one zip file anyway,its used in production enviroment and you need special equipment to program each individual chip on the main board.

Here is an example of the content of onezip file.
problems when connecting multiple sources via AVR to TV:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1150

ggggg

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlay
I have a prejudice against Sony....just about every major electronic purchase I've made from Sony over the past 15 years or so has broken down after the warranty has expired (a PSP, a Sony Vaio laptop, a Handicam Camcorder....even a few rechargeable batteries). Then they have quite a bit of proprietary technology that always ends up costing a premium in the long run (memory sticks, rechargable batteries, UMDs, mini-disc, etc.). Reluctantly I picked up a PS/3 (simply because it is the best, most affordable blu-ray player, and I got it for $200 off). So when faced with paying a bit more (or quite a bit more) for the Sony brand or for a comparable product (which I feel the Philips is), as a matter of principle, I won't choose Sony.
I'm in 100% agreement with you about Sony.

SteveCaron

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggggg
!DAVE!!DAVE!!DAVE!!DAVE!



Anyway. Thanks for your reply. I understand your position. The only problem is, that this does not solve my problems (connecting an AVR - only one customer setting ;-)...

I still intend to purchase one of the Phils. 9703 / 9803 (LED)
But I have to wait until I found a solution for the probs.

May be you are willing ;-) to tell me in which file the picture setting eg "vivid" or eg "noise reduction" of the vivid setting is stored ????

regards from austria
dont forget, i am a field quality guy, not a SW development guy. i have no idea where that stuff is stored. not to mention that the units you are talking about, I have never seen. EU only.

daveinga

Philips 120Hz 2ms 7403 7603 Series Discussion

of course - there was a quality guy having good connections to the sw departement .... ;-)
Richard

by the way - where is the SW developped ? Netherlands, Belgium/Brugee ....

ggggg

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