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Question Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration ( nV News Forums Politics and Religion )
Updated: 2008-02-13 00:20:21 (350)
Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
WASHINGTON Gay men's brains respond differently from those of heterosexual males when exposed to a sexual stimulus, researchers have found.

The homosexual men's brains responded more like those of women when the men sniffed a chemical from the male hormone testosterone (search).

"It is one more piece of evidence ... that is showing that sexual orientation is not all learned," said Sandra Witelson, an expert on brain anatomy and sexual orientation at the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University (search) in Ontario, Canada.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html

Now that we know it is not learned, and therefor not (EDIT: added the forgotten word not in to remove confusion) just a lifestyle choice, we can confidently say that homosexuality is a physical aberration.

I always thought it was just a lifestyle choice, but maybe that is because I have been told that by so many...that I should respect their lifestyle choices.

With this new info, maybe a fix can be found.

Answers: Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration ( nV News Forums Politics and Religion )
Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDawg
You are working way to hard to construct a good argument that tries to diminsh the influence that Chrstianity has had on western civilization. Your own post admits to it. Why you even want to discuss this is beyond me.

I don't want to diminish it, I want to represent it accuratley and show that I believe others over represent it. You misinteprit my motives WRT christianty, I wish it no harm and bear no grudge.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Umm, why would it have to hold true for the rest of the animal kingdom? I already stated that our lifetime commitment often doesn't last a lifetime simply because the DNA is there. The social aspect is what reinforces that, and society in its earliest stages was bound and created by religions.



Yet those religions were often radically different from the ones we have today, often based on superstition alone, one might even say they were primitive. So yes, religion has a major influence, but religion is a result of society, as apposed to society being a result of religion. The two go hand in hand, to bind an early civilisation together, but there is no evidence to say any religion predates society. There is however, evidence to say small social groups existed without what we would call religion.

I think we are saying much the same thing, just coming from different sides of the issue to it...

Lets see if I understand:

Religion plays an important role in shaping morality, but it is not the only things that does.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Indeed, and as such, I believe that is an argument why we should no rely soley on our religion for societies moral issues. Our morality is shaped by more than just one religion, and more influences than religion alone. The homosexuality argument is a case in point.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

True, our morality is shaped by many things.

The issue about homosexuality, though, is that our society's view of it is almost solely (heh...almost typed soul instead of sole!) based on the Bible's stance. The Bible is very specific when it comes to homosexuality.

On many other topics, I would 100% agree with you, just not this specific one.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

You are all gay communists

vampireuk

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

So a person needing a heart transplant doesn't have a choice. True, up to a point. They could choose to die ofcourse. But anyway, let's just say yes, they don't have a choice. So then bending nature becomes OK.

But I hate to break it to you guys, there is no solid 100% proof one way or the other that there is a choice in being gay or not. I haven't seen anything yet, perhaps you can provide it?

What about synthetic man made drugs like levitra or viagra? Should they be banned because they aren't natural?

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
So a person needing a heart transplant doesn't have a choice. True, up to a point. They could choose to die ofcourse. But anyway, let's just say yes, they don't have a choice. So then bending nature becomes OK.

But I hate to break it to you guys, there is no solid 100% proof one way or the other that there is a choice in being gay or not. I haven't seen anything yet, perhaps you can provide it?

What about synthetic man made drugs like levitra or viagra? Should they be banned because they aren't natural?

If a guy chooses not to act on having a homosexual relationship it's not going to kill him, it's a choice...called restraint.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsk00l
If a guy chooses not to act on having a homosexual relationship it's not going to kill him, it's a choice...called restraint.
That's not what I meant though. I meant there is no proof that the existence of said desires is a choice or not. No solid, 100%, undeniable proof.

Sure there is choice in whether or not to act out on that behavior though.

BTW, you didn't answer the other questions regarding other twisting(s) of nature that we perform either.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

I don't see how it's "not answering it"

I don't give a damn about the desire to do such, because people have the desire to kill other people, rape people, and steal. It's not relevant to say "it's natural" because the word "aberration" is used. Rather than get into a semantic discussion about the principle of "normal" i will say that in the interests of our kids homosexuality is unacceptable.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Look, you and steeda both say "It's not natural." Let's just focus in on that point for one brief moment here.

We do a lot of things that aren't natural, and they are a choice. So how come it's OK to pop a viagra so you can get a boner at 75 (which isn't natural) and yet it's not OK for gays to do what they do? Forget kids for just a minute and focus on that.

I'm curious what your response is. And this is partly where that gray area I spoke of earlier starts creeping into this.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Look, you and steeda both say "It's not natural." Let's just focus in on that point for one brief moment here.

We do a lot of things that aren't natural, and they are a choice. So how come it's OK to pop a viagra so you can get a boner at 75 (which isn't natural) and yet it's not OK for gays to do what they do? Forget kids for just a minute and focus on that.

I'm curious what your response is. And this is partly where that gray area I spoke of earlier starts creeping into this.
"popping" viagra at age 75 is NOT natural. If you need to have a substance to aid you in sex, it's not natural.

DiscipleDOC

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Look, you and steeda both say "It's not natural." Let's just focus in on that point for one brief moment here.

We do a lot of things that aren't natural, and they are a choice. So how come it's OK to pop a viagra so you can get a boner at 75 (which isn't natural) and yet it's not OK for gays to do what they do? Forget kids for just a minute and focus on that.

I'm curious what your response is. And this is partly where that gray area I spoke of earlier starts creeping into this.

If you follow that logic then let's consider all matter "natural" and then suddenly everything is natural.

The reason the nature arguement is used is because there is no result from it except the tendency toward uncleanness. Again, that's just semantics to debate that we should do away with all unnatural things. Homosexuality is something that should not be an accepted lifestyle not because of whether it's natural or not - and if you do notice I never purported that as the base of my stance - but by what it does to the society in question through the family unit.

Quite frankly, it is getting frustrating to have to point things out when semantics are thrown in. It's a fruitless rabbit chase and "natural" was never my case. I'm analyzing your posts and throwing in my two cents but the response you should be most curious about are from those who do purport the demerit of homosexuality based on the nature stance.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsk00l
I care about it for my own kids having a decent life to look forward to, the ability to find a spouse that cares about her/his family so they don't run off and cause MORE dis-functional families like the ones you mentioned above - single parents, divorced situations, orphaned babies, etc.

If we just "accept this for the way it is" we only further the horribly quagmire of moral fiber that we've come to already. I want to teach my kids that teen pregnancy is BAD because of what it does generations down the line due to resentment, the sacrifice, and what it takes away from the child.

Homosexuality is just as destructive as any of those due to aforementioned reasons that you are distorting.

Firstly, homosexuals can raise a well adjusted child. Secondly, even if its not from their own genes (which it could be with science) it certainly isn't being distructive that way. In of itself it doesn't create family problems and is not bad for society. You have to extroplate bad potential activites for it to become bad. There is no quagmire created by allowing homosexuals in our society.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Firstly, homosexuals can raise a well adjusted child. Secondly, even if its not from their own genes (which it could be with science) it certainly isn't being distructive that way. In of itself it doesn't create family problems and is not bad for society. You have to extroplate bad potential activites for it to become bad. There is no quagmire created by allowing homosexuals in our society.

There is when they seek to alter sacred concepts of HETEROSEXUAL MAN to benefit them. I never had a problem with homo's until they started trying to figuratively SHOVE THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GAY DOWN OUR THROATS, you know, what they literally do to each other all day.

They're complete idiots. You don't see heterosexual pride parades do you, of course not! If there were they'd be BIGOTS and IGNORANT BAD PEOPLEZ!!!

Gays need to learn to keep their freaking sexual desires in the bedroom and not broadcast it in town square.

evilchris

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeda
Mankind at the core is a heterosexual species. That is what we ARE. Homosexuals are MISTAKES of nature. We can let them live in peace, I have no issues with that. However, it should NEVER be "accepted", taught in schools, and they should never destroy OUR definition of marriage for their own perverse, disgusting reasons. Who the hell do they think they are telling ME what I must accept? Do we really want to have homosexual sex taught in schools? "Here is how you **** a person up the ass, test next Friday".

We should be fighting and attempting to treat homosexuals the same way we do disease, cancer, and other disorders. Their behavior is NOT OK, and it is NOT NATURAL.

Check this out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by changed Steeda
Mankind at the core is a white species. That is what we ARE. Black menare MISTAKES of nature. We can let them live in peace, I have no issues with that. However, it should NEVER be "accepted", taught in schools, and they should never destroy OUR definition of marriage for their own perverse, disgusting reasons. Who the hell do they think they are telling ME what I must accept? Do we really want to have interacial sex taught in schools? "Here is how you **** a person up the ass, test next Friday".

We should be fighting and attempting to treat blackness the same way we do disease, cancer, and other disorders. Their behavior is NOT OK, and it is NOT NATURAL

Sounds bad doesn't it. You have to justify homosexluaity as a choice or perversion in order to save face. Make it sound like they are doing something wrong that affects either you or society. I have proven it does neither, so you tried the evolution argument which failed. Permit me to speculate here...

I put it to you, that you have been taught that homosexuality is bad for so long, and believed it for so long, any argument is auto dismissed. They could and indeed do intergrate into society perfectly. They have no negative effect on your life, your family or the good of the nation. The only negative effect is the reaction the hetrosexual masses have (and then in turn the activists you guys love to harp on about). I also put it to you that you're negative view of homosexuality is worse for society than acceptance.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Check this out...



Sounds bad doesn't it. You have to justify homosexluaity as a choice or perversion in order to save face. Make it sound like they are doing something wrong that affects either you or society. I have proven it does neither, so you tried the evolution argument which failed. Permit me to speculate here...

I put it to you, that you have been taught that homosexuality is bad for so long, and believed it for so long, any argument is auto dismissed. They could and indeed do intergrate into society perfectly. They have no negative effect on your life, your family or the good of the nation. The only negative effect is the reaction the hetrosexual masses have (and then in turn the activists you guys love to harp on about). I also put it to you that you're negative view of homosexuality is worse for society than acceptance.


Wrong. Apples and oranges. Homosexuality is not a race, but a choice, and for you to make a comparison to the two is totally wrong.

DiscipleDOC

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeda
Gays need to learn to keep their freaking sexual desires in the bedroom and not broadcast it in town square.

You know for a fact the people who get on TV protesting don't represent a given group usually. Protestors suck, and they harm the gay cause more than help it. How on earth can that have any bearing on a gay couples ability to raise a child?

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
Wrong. Apples and oranges. Homosexuality is not a race, but a choice, and for you to make a comparison to the two is totally wrong.

You have no proof, and are most likley very distanced from homosexuality (forgive my assumption). What permits you to judge it as a choice if you have never experienced it? It is so very convenient to lable it a choice. Is schizophrenia a choice? Infertility? Things that happen in the human body are not always a choice, and it is my opinion that something would have to be radically different to make a human persue homosexual sex, judging by the average hetrosexual males reaction to it.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Firstly, homosexuals can raise a well adjusted child. Secondly, even if its not from their own genes (which it could be with science) it certainly isn't being distructive that way. In of itself it doesn't create family problems and is not bad for society. You have to extroplate bad potential activites for it to become bad. There is no quagmire created by allowing homosexuals in our society.

Funny, I never said they couldn't.

Secondly, it is biologically destructive. When you produce no offspring, that genetic pattern goes no where. Then again it means less gays, so I see your point on it potentially NOT being destructive. You have a horribly weak arguement against that.

It is bad for society and you resort to very simple semantics and nothing substantive to say that it isn't. You just keep saying "Nuh uh, it isn't just *bad* and it doesn't cause family problems" yet you have nothing else to contradict my stance with.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsk00l
Quite frankly, it is getting frustrating to have to point things out when semantics are thrown in. It's a fruitless rabbit chase and "natural" was never my case.
Maybe not yours, but steeda brought it into this.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

I honestly feel it's a birth defect. As the saying goes, God made Adam and Eve, not adam and steve. Men with men women with women...it's wrong.

vX

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Do people just ignore my posts? I'm interested in replies. So far it seems alot of people have blinders on, handed out by the Phelps family....

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakelwe
I think Cyber is just selecting words to add drama, newspaper terminology. Obviously gays are not debilitated.

Regards
Andy

No, I honestly think there is something that went awry with someone who wants to have sex with a member of the same sex. It is a debilitating condition.

In using the Old Testament, I was merely showing that God did not like homosexuality. I cannot see Him suddenly liking it after Jesus did His handiwork. It would still be a sin, but (through Jesus) we can be forgiven of sins. Point comes down to we are supposed to NOT sin (I know it is not possible for us to never sin). Homosexual intercourse is a sin that can be prevented by just not taking off your clothing and...performing the act.

Murder is a sin also, but I am expected to not do it, even though I can be forgiven if I do.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaman09
Regardless, we have not overcome any boundaries. We still need egg and sperm to reproduce, despite how they come to meet. I do not believe we are or ever will be beyond the constraints of nature.

qft

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
I realize this, which is why I always included the term intercourse - to specify what I was talking about.
Regardless, we have not overcome any boundaries. We still need egg and sperm to reproduce, despite how they come to meet. I do not believe we are or ever will be beyond the constraints of nature.

Ninjaman09

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

You can call my wife anything, I do ....

Not sure actually, might be genetic or might be too much trampolining as a youth .. but my point is it does not matter now because even if all our offspring have blocked tubes then science can fix it. However I do realise there is a point where the moral dilemma raises it's head. For instance if there is a 50% chance of a life threatening or disabilitating problem, is it humane to risk that for your own desire to have children and get pleasure from them.

In regards to the first point, same effect, no children, so cybersage's argument about it being debilitating because of no children can be applied to not having sex. Someone who practices having no sex is as disabilitated as a homosexual given that criteria.

I think Cyber is just selecting words to add drama, newspaper terminology. Obviously gays are not debilitated.

Regards
Andy

zakelwe

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakelwe
Cybersage says "It is debilitating in that it greatly reduces the change of creating offspring." well in that case not having sex is also debilitating as well.
Not having sex at all and having sex with a person of the same sex are not equivalent.
Quote:
I would also like to ask Cybersage whether he would actually stone to death someone who was gay ? If not then he is autmoatically watering down what the Bible advises.
I'm pretty sure that it's a sin but at least in Christianity it is something that can be forgiven providing you accept Christ.
Quote:
On the question of homosexuality as a whole, I cannot see the problem myself. If shown two women having sex in a film, or two women having sex with a man and themselves , I cannot put my hand on my heart and say I find it unpleasant ..or are we just talking about men having sex together here ?
I find sex between two women to be completely uninteresting. Sex between me and a woman OTOH...
Quote:
On the question of IVF , I have a bias to this as my only daugter, aged 3 yesterday, was born using IVF. My wifes tubes are blocked so it is a simple procedure to remove the egg from the ovary, fertilise it and put it back in the womb. I hardly think that is as shocking as taking the heart from a dead person and putting it in the body of a living person, surely that is more like Dr Frankenstein's ficticious exploits?
You're right, but was your wife's condition caused by a genetic problem? Or maybe we should just leave her out of this. People can get pretty testy (which I understand) when we're talking about the wife.
Quote:
It was put very well in a previous post, natural selection has been slowly going out the window when it comes to humans for the last few years, quite right too, if you, as a species, have the brain power than use it to your advantage.
If we can fix genetic problems using technology I'm for it.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsk00l
I take the stance that it goes under the second definition. I may be taking a 30 year old stance, but this is true 30 years ago due to the "abnormal" part of it. What's happened is that we've been conditioned to find it acceptable.

I actually know a guy who believes we have become socially conditioned to accept other races into british society, and that the White british male should have dominant status in the British Isles. What you are documenting is a change of social concience... some sections of society take longer to catch up on different issues.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
That would be the wrong response by the homosexual community. The correct response would to argue that the person was wrongly guided away from homosexuality by an attempt to convince this person that heterosexuality is preferable. If you were to raise a child to believe that people who have two legs are bad, and people with one leg are good, and then offer that child the opportunity to have his leg amputated, he's going to choose amputation. There is a substantial difference between socializing a person to believe and act a certain way, and actually changing the chemical composition within their brain and body.
No, because being heterosexual is prefered. I am not a moral relativist as you know. The whole idea of choice with in dificult situations builds charater. You say that person was wrongly guided away. That is from the perspective that change is forced. This is not the case.

WRT to chemical compositions they can and do change through out your life. Take for the example of depression, you chemical pathways will change to anticipate the next anxiety attack or other sysmptoms. Steering the chemical path ways back to the norm can be done with drugs or emotional therapy. This is why I say and so do many social scientists that homosexuality is a condition and not genetic and it can change. The homosexual activists say it cannot change and if it does then that person was not really a homosexual. Well that is just double speek from a corrupt lobby group and a flat out lie.

Having one leg is not a choice, expressing your homosexuality is a choice.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

This is a good thread, some good stuff flying about, I even agree with Udawg on some of his points , either he's turning liberal or , even worse, I'm becoming less pinko

Seems to be a split of the thread.

For the first split, homosexuality being bad ( simplyfying the initial post ) I obviously disagree.

Cybersage says "It is debilitating in that it greatly reduces the change of creating offspring." well in that case not having sex is also debilitating as well. I would also like to ask Cybersage whether he would actually stone to death someone who was gay ? If not then he is autmoatically watering down what the Bible advises. If you are going to start watering it down then you might as well water it down completely and say, "hey, you do what you want and let me do what I want to ". But actually what Cybersage is doing is watering it down to a level of "frowning upon it" which is the level which makes him feel happiest with. Probably a bad thing to quote the Bible as back up in that case though.

On the question of homosexuality as a whole, I cannot see the problem myself. If shown two women having sex in a film, or two women having sex with a man and themselves , I cannot put my hand on my heart and say I find it unpleasant ..or are we just talking about men having sex together here ?


On the question of IVF , I have a bias to this as my only daugter, aged 3 yesterday, was born using IVF. My wifes tubes are blocked so it is a simple procedure to remove the egg from the ovary, fertilise it and put it back in the womb. I hardly think that is as shocking as taking the heart from a dead person and putting it in the body of a living person, surely that is more like Dr Frankenstein's ficticious exploits ?

It was put very well in a previous post, natural selection has been slowly going out the window when it comes to humans for the last few years, quite right too, if you, as a species, have the brain power than use it to your advantage.

And for those who say that people who have problems should be allowed to wither and die then you obviously are very healthy yourselves or do not have anyone to love who has those problems.

Regards

Andy

zakelwe

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Trying to get around the requirement of having sex to reproduce is sick IMO. This is going to far with playing around with nature. What's next, frankenstein and noone is going to have a problem with it?

The Nazis played around with eugenics and everyone freaked out about it yet this is OK?
Smells like eugenics to me. Or at least a short step from it.


Wouldn't bother me. The world could due with a few Solid Snakes.

Vagrant Zero

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
That wouldn't tell you anything actually. Even if two people have exactly identical genes, odds are that they wont be the same phenotype.

Right. The phyiscal expression of the genotype is not always exact. Thank God or else we'd all be dead due to countless unwelcome recessive genes going dominant.

Vagrant Zero

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSage
Leviticus 20
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.


Does not sound like God would make people gay...

And if we took everything from the Old Testament to heart, we'd still be Jewish. Fact is, when Jesus Christ was born, so was a new forgiving God. Would Jesus want to kill everyone that is gay, has commited adultry, engaged in beastiality, and whatever else he said to Moses still stand when he was hung on the cross and asked forgiveness for those who put him there?

Let me ask you (or any right wing Christian, for that matter. I'm curious) something. When God says: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life," what does that mean to you? Of course homosexuality is a sin. So is hate. So is smoking. So is not eating right. So is killing someone. Etc. etc. etc. So now that God realizes that everyone is equal, and if you ask for forgiveness and you believe in Christ, you will go to heaven. If you dont do those things, you go to hell. Why do Republicans and televangelist Christians insist that homosexuals are the center of the debate on the next president? Why are homosexuals being the center of debate on if you're going to hell or not? And so on and so on... Let's talk about those people that don't realize your body is your temple and fill it with endless ammounts of crap, or those who drink to get drunk, or those that smoke like a train. I can continue on and on, but hopefully, you get the point. So, I'd just like to figure out why people really think these things. Because I am a devout Christian and I went from respecting the Republican party when Bush senior was in office and when Dole ran, to realizing they are doing nothing but USING the Christian faith for votes. Does our constitution REALLY need to restrict rights, when it's main purpose is to enforce those rights? No, but it gets those televangelists out there to spread the word, and the gets the votes rolling in.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Question. Has there not been cases of identical twins where one was homosexual and the other was not? If so, that would tend to indicate genetics are not necessarily the only factor in this situation and that environment and life experiences do play some sort of role.

That wouldn't tell you anything actually. Even if two people have exactly identical genes, odds are that they wont be the same phenotype.

AlphaWolf_HK

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

This forum has to populate the most Fox News loving, Texas loving, right wing nvidia lovers ever. eew.

Here's my take:

I don't pretend to know everything, so I don't try to come to a conclusion that homosexuality is genetics or society. What if God himself decides that people are gay? What if it is His form of population control, or the one you all should worry about, what if he is testing to see if people are being Christian like towards them? The right wing Christians claim that they won't tolerate homosexuality (among other things), but look at the stance Jesus had towards Mary Magdalene. He didn't hate her, or try to fix her, like you people want to do. He cared for her and through that she changed. Never through force will you ever change someone.

Now that we are through with that, I do think homosexuality is wrong. It is a sin, in my eyes and in the eyes of my God. But it is also a sin to try to revert back to the 50's where they would follow only rich white men that own property, because everyone else doesn't have a soul.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Question. Has there not been cases of identical twins where one was homosexual and the other was not? If so, that would tend to indicate genetics are not necessarily the only factor in this situation and that environment and life experiences do play some sort of role.

Really I'm not sure any of you, or anyone else for that matter, knows for sure everything that goes into play w/regard to this situation. The human mind and personality is an extremely complex thing. I just have problems buying that we really have it well understood @ this point.

I don't know if being homosexual is a choice or not. I would tend to think not, since as others have stated I also don't feel being heterosexual was a choice like I choose which flavor of ice cream I have for dessert.

Whether homosexuality is a destructive behavior or not, I tend to think it is. It should seem obvious that tab a is supposed to go into slot b, and that sex is for recreating when you look at it @ a very basic level. Homosexuality would completely remove a person's genes from the gene pool which seems to go counter to the way of the jungle so to speak.

I have changed my mind, partly from discussions that have taken place here in the past in that homosexuality in at least a minority of individuals is a recurring thing, part of the human condition. So in that sense I do believe it's natural so to speak.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Whether homosexuality is a destructive behavior or not, I tend to think it is. It should seem obvious that tab a is supposed to go into slot b, and that sex is for recreating when you look at it @ a very basic level. Homosexuality would completely remove a person's genes from the gene pool which seems to go counter to the way of the jungle so to speak.

We are almost getting to the point, however, where we are above evolution so to speak. We no longer require sexual intercourse in order to reproduce, and as such I don't think you can as easily claim reproductive abilities as a justification for homosexuality being destructive. Along with simple test-tube babies, we now have the technology to modify cells at the genetic level, which gives us even more control over our own genetic mutation and/or makeup...so it may very well be possible at some point in the future to create a human with male sexual organs and female reproductive organs.

netviper13

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
We no longer require sexual intercourse in order to reproduce



I must have missed this.

Ninjaman09

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaman09


I must have missed this.

Ever heard of test-tube babies? In-vitro fertilization? All that's required is egg and sperm, no intercourse.

netviper13

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
We are almost getting to the point, however, where we are above evolution so to speak. We no longer require sexual intercourse in order to reproduce, and as such I don't think you can as easily claim reproductive abilities as a justification for homosexuality being destructive.
Trying to get around the requirement of having sex to reproduce is sick IMO. This is going to far with playing around with nature. What's next, frankenstein and noone is going to have a problem with it?

The Nazis played around with eugenics and everyone freaked out about it yet this is OK?
Quote:
Along with simple test-tube babies, we now have the technology to modify cells at the genetic level, which gives us even more control over our own genetic mutation and/or makeup...
Smells like eugenics to me. Or at least a short step from it.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Trying to get around the requirement of having sex to reproduce is sick IMO. This is going to far with playing around with nature. What's next, frankenstein and noone is going to have a problem with it?

The Nazis played around with eugenics and everyone freaked out about it yet this is OK?

This offers a miracle solution for many heterosexual couples as well as homosexual couples. Whether the man has bad sperm, the woman bad eggs, or any of a myriad of reasons conception via intercourse is not possible; this is the only viable method of reproduction for many couples, should we deprive them of that desire because someone uses the term Eugenics to describe what is occuring?

Genetic screening has been available for quite some time now on newborns, and it is not uncommon for couples going through IVF or other similar procedures to choose a healthier zygote over an unhealthy one. There has been little protest over such procedures.

Quote:
Smells like eugenics to me. Or at least a short step from it.

Eugenics, just like nuclear fission, dynamite, and even fire has its advantages and disadvantages. Yes it can be used for bad things, and we have seen the evil that can come from it, but there is also good that can come from it. For those people who are disadvantaged with, say, a debilitating genetic disease that makes it impossible for them to reproduce, modern science offers them a way out to live a normal life as they so desire.

Besides, I commented purely on the science, and my comment was accurate. We have the technology to do just about anything with our genetic sequence if we so chose. Our morality, however, has not yet adapted to meet the 21st century technology, which makes pratical use of such techniques years, decades, or centuries away. Once our society and others around the world reach a solid moral stance, then and only then will we know the practical bounds of science.

netviper13

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
This offers a miracle solution for many heterosexual couples as well as homosexual couples. Whether the man has bad sperm, the woman bad eggs, or any of a myriad of reasons conception via intercourse is not possible; this is the only viable method of reproduction for many couples, should we deprive them of that desire because someone uses the term Eugenics to describe what is occuring?
No, they should deprive themselves because it is the right thing to do. Adopt. I'm not for forcing anything on anyone. But if you don't have the equipment to have a child the way the species has been doing it for thousands, perhaps millions of years, then you shouldn't. IMO ofcourse.
Quote:
Genetic screening has been available for quite some time now on newborns, and it is not uncommon for couples going through IVF or other similar procedures to choose a healthier zygote over an unhealthy one.
What is IVF?
Quote:
Eugenics, just like nuclear fission, dynamite, and even fire has its advantages and disadvantages. Yes it can be used for bad things, and we have seen the evil that can come from it, but there is also good that can come from it.
You believe in evil? We're not talking about fire or nuclear fission.
Quote:
For those people who are disadvantaged with, say, a debilitating genetic disease that makes it impossible for them to reproduce, modern science offers them a way out to live a normal life as they so desire.
If those people have a genetic disease, and their child is going to carry that gene, then they have no business having a child in the first place. They should not be spreading disease knowingly. Should it be against the law? Not IMO. But they are making a wrong choice.
Quote:
Once our society and others around the world reach a solid moral stance, then and only then will we know the practical bounds of science.
Where, if anywhere, do YOU draw the line between what's OK and what's not when it comes to playing around with nature like this?

Now you say we are going to be beyond evolution right? What is the purpose of evolution? The survival and advancement of the species. It's a process that has worked well for a long time now. Why must we tinker with it?

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
No, they should deprive themselves because it is the right thing to do. Adopt. I'm not for forcing anything on anyone. But if you don't have the equipment to have a child the way the species has been doing it for thousands, perhaps millions of years, then you shouldn't. IMO ofcourse.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Quote:
What is IVF?

In-Vitro Fertilization. Basically the eggs are harvested from the woman, fertilized in a petri dish, and then implanted in the woman's uterus. It is the most popular and succesful, albeit expensive, method for couples who are having difficulty reproducing sexually.

Quote:
You believe in evil? We're not talking about fire or nuclear fission.

I have personal beliefs about what constitutes good and evil, yes. And this is quite similar to fire or nuclear fission. It has the potential to benefit millions or even billions of people both now and in the future, but it also has a potential to do a great amount of harm. Just as nuclear power is very clean, but nuclear weapons are very destructive. Dynamite was quite useful for building the infrastucture that allows for travel in this nation today, but also quite destructive as an explosive war device. Nearly all scientific breakthroughs have good and bad applications.

Quote:
If those people have a genetic disease, and their child is going to carry that gene, then they have no business having a child in the first place. They should not be spreading disease knowingly. Should it be against the law? Not IMO. But they are making a wrong choice.

How about if they could remove the offending protein from the DNA of their offspring? That would guarantee the fetus would not carry the genetic disease. We can already screen for the diseases early on in pregnancy, and many couples make the decision of whether to take the fetus to term or not based on the results of those tests; this is one possible solution to that situation.

Quote:
Where, if anywhere, do YOU draw the line between what's OK and what's not when it comes to playing around with nature like this?

I haven't made up my mind about it yet. I've always been fascinated by genetics, and our potential to one day be like a god; but at the same time I understand that horrendous things have happened as a result of genetic manipulation. It's an issue that really has me torn, as I see the potential to make people very happy, but also the potential to be unbelievably destructive.

Quote:
Now you say we are going to be beyond evolution right? What is the purpose of evolution? The survival and advancement of the species. It's a process that has worked well for a long time now. Why must we tinker with it?

Nobody knew about the gene when Darwin made his arguments about evolution. Nor did they know about DNA. Or even cancer for the most part. I don't think it is a radical notion to believe that our evolution has taken a different path from those of other animals. We are the only species that has established such good control over our mechanisms of life and eath, perhaps it is our evolutionary destiny to become our own masters?

By the way, we tinker with survival every time we treat someone in a hospital. Every time we get a vaccine, or take antibiotics, or a multivitamin. Or wear shoes designed for proper arch support. We have been beyond simple survival of the fittest for quite some time now. Or in the way doctors recommend sexual reproduction take place before a man reaches age 35, as that is when the DNA in his sperm will begin to deteriorate, thus increasing chances of genetic deformities.

netviper13

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ew2x4
This forum has to populate the most Fox News loving, Texas loving, right wing nvidia lovers ever. eew.

Here's my take:

I don't pretend to know everything, so I don't try to come to a conclusion that homosexuality is genetics or society. What if God himself decides that people are gay?

Leviticus 20
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.


Does not sound like God would make people gay...

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
In-Vitro Fertilization. Basically the eggs are harvested from the woman, fertilized in a petri dish, and then implanted in the woman's uterus. It is the most popular and succesful, albeit expensive, method for couples who are having difficulty reproducing sexually.
I suppose if their problem is related to genetics, and they would carry that on with offspring, then I am against that procedure. If no, then perhaps it's alright. For instance if I break my balls in a car accident and I have a sperm milkshake in the freezer perhaps it's OK to pop it in a test tube.
Quote:
Nearly all scientific breakthroughs have good and bad applications.
Sounds like a giant gray area.
Quote:
How about if they could remove the offending protein from the DNA of their offspring? That would guarantee the fetus would not carry the genetic disease.
I guess I don't have a problem with that.
Quote:
I haven't made up my mind about it yet. I've always been fascinated by genetics, and our potential to one day be like a god; but at the same time I understand that horrendous things have happened as a result of genetic manipulation.
If God exists, we can never have that sort of power. It is beyond our abilities to ever stretch the laws of physics, create a universe, or a species completely from scratch. We can toy and tinker with ourselves and our own environment, but there are still limits that won't budge no matter what we do.
Quote:
Nobody knew about the gene when Darwin made his arguments about evolution. Nor did they know about DNA. Or even cancer for the most part.
Nor did they have to. Because people that had a genetic illness - it was more or less a self correcting thing. They usually didn't reproduce well because they weren't fit. Now we have the ability to allow people to carry on bad genes, like cystic fibrosis, and it's perfectly OK with a lot of people. I think they're crazy. I think it should be frowned upon. They are being selfish.
Quote:
I don't think it is a radical notion to believe that our evolution has taken a different path from those of other animals. We are the only species that has established such good control over our mechanisms of life and death, perhaps it is our evolutionary destiny to become our own masters?
There is something scary to me about mankind fancying himself God. Call me old fashioned or paranoid if you like.

What happens when parents start tinkering with things like muscle mass in their child. Those that can afford it could have a super athlete for a child. What about those not in a position to do something like that? The impacts are far reaching and they are definitely not all positive. Again we're in a gray area. There exists the potential to breed people with any trait you want - fathers everywhere could order their boys to have giant wangs or mothers could order their daughters to have the body of a supermodel. I know it sounds silly but I bet that would sell pretty well.
Quote:
By the way, we tinker with survival every time we treat someone in a hospital. Every time we get a vaccine, or take antibiotics, or a multivitamin.
Yes, this is one huge gray area. And I don't like gray areas, so we had better be damn careful about the choices we make.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by netviper13
Ever heard of test-tube babies? In-vitro fertilization? All that's required is egg and sperm, no intercourse.
Egg and sperm is still sexual reproduction. Whether or not any intercourse takes place is irrelevant.

Ninjaman09

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDawg
The problem with your opinion is that it is a opinion. My best assesment is based on more than one study of homosexuality and hetrosexuality, which lends more credibility to my argument. There are no studies that have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a disease. If there are, I am sure they are about as responsible as Kinsey's "studies" were.

To call it a disease is a reactionary opinion based on a gut reaction.

Quote:
dis?ease P Pronunciation Key (d-zz)
n.
A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.
Obsolete. Lack of ease; trouble.

I take the stance that it goes under the second definition. I may be taking a 30 year old stance, but this is true 30 years ago due to the "abnormal" part of it. What's happened is that we've been conditioned to find it acceptable.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
I suppose if their problem is related to genetics, and they would carry that on with offspring, then I am against that procedure. If no, then perhaps it's alright. For instance if I break my balls in a car accident and I have a sperm milkshake in the freezer perhaps it's OK to pop it in a test tube.

Hence the genetic screening of the zygotes before they are implanted in the uterus. Couples are generally presented with the 3-5 of the most viable zygotes and then choose which one or ones to have implanted. This, of course, depends on the availability of eggs.

Quote:
Sounds like a giant gray area.

It is, but I don't think that should stop the purely theoretical science work. If we chose not to work on something because it has a gray area, we would become nihilistic and never accomplish anything.

Quote:
If God exists, we can never have that sort of power. It is beyond our abilities to ever stretch the laws of physics, create a universe, or a species completely from scratch. We can toy and tinker with ourselves and our own environment, but there are still limits that won't budge no matter what we do.

Sort of. If physicists are correct, and they are ultimately able to define the Theory of Everything, then we may very well be able to alter various aspects of the cosmos. Quantum theory has already shown us things we never thought were possible (that two particles a very far distance apart can react simultaneously to a stimulus without transmitting any data between each other, for instance), so to put anything off limits is to make an assumption that we can't make at this point.

Quote:
Nor did they have to. Because people that had a genetic illness - it was more or less a self correcting thing. They usually didn't reproduce well because they weren't fit. Now we have the ability to allow people to carry on bad genes, like cystic fibrosis, and it's perfectly OK with a lot of people. I think they're crazy. I think it should be frowned upon. They are being selfish.
There is something scary to me about mankind fancying himself God. Call me old fashioned or paranoid if you like.

I agree that it is not a wise idea to intentionally pass on the potential for something like cystic fibrosis. This is why scientific breakthroughs in gene therapy and genetic manipulation are so crucial, because they would allow the removal of the bad genetic data while still allowing people to fulfil their reproductive desires.

Quote:
What happens when parents start tinkering with things like muscle mass in their child. Those that can afford it could have a super athlete for a child. What about those not in a position to do something like that? The impacts are far reaching and they are definitely not all positive. Again we're in a gray area. There exists the potential to breed people with any trait you want - fathers everywhere could order their boys to have giant wangs or mothers could order their daughters to have the body of a supermodel. I know it sounds silly but I bet that would sell pretty well.

It doesn't sound silly. It's actually one of the top concerns which, ironically, exists primarily because of the market economy we have. Certain genetic characteristics can determine how much money you will make in your lifetime, and those who can afford the gene therapy first will reap the benefits of it. This is one place where morality has not caught up with technology, although I would argue that is the case of economics in general. Economic systems are amoral, we simply add morals into them that we feel are appropriate.

netviper13

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaman09
Egg and sperm is still sexual reproduction. Whether or not any intercourse takes place is irrelevant.

I realize this, which is why I always included the term intercourse - to specify what I was talking about.

netviper13

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

See, this is where people start putting words in my mouth.

Did I say Jesus would say, "Hey, it's cool, be gay. While you're at it, let's kill people!"

Absolutely not. I have stated in my posts that it IS a sin in my eyes and the eyes of my God. NOW, how we deal with those that sin are VERY differnet. I'm not going to explain my thoughts AGAIN. Because if you can't read it once you won't be able to read it again.

Look at how Jesus treated Mary Magdalene and then look at how the Republican party and many here (the mindset you all have) treat homosexuals. There is a HUGE difference. Jesus reached out to the sinner. Jesus became a friend to the sinner. That is how he helped those over come sin. How do current day Republicans? They disassociate them selves from them. They hate them. They treat them as if they have a disease. It is not only counterproductive to saving them from sin (what I believe should be a goal for every Christian), it is completely opposite to how Jesus would act. That is the great hypocrasy, in my eyes. It is NOT the view you and probably most right wing Christians hold of people that oppose your views. I absolutely do not condone homosexuality, or any other sin for that matter. What I also don't condone is people that resort to hate instead of helping those.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ew2x4
Then again, we are only human. Can we expect everyone to become completely sin free? Even turn away completely from one sin throughout their whole life? Of course not. This is why we must not be quick to shun them, descriminate them, hate them, etc. Of course they could and should change, just as all sinners should. But they will NEVER accomplish that with how half of America is acting. If Jesus were here today, how do you think he would approach homosexuals? Would he push legislation to make their way of life outlawed, shun them, create a political base on all of this, then gather followers to make him more powerful? Or, do you think he would try to reach out to them? Would he try to be a friend or an enemy?

This is where I see a great hypocrasy with the status quo of the Republican party. With all of this, I have lost respect for the Right, there really is no Left, so where to go from now? I dunno.


Jesus would definately NOT be saying we should condone a homosexual way of life. Jesus is the man who picked up a whip, entered the temple, overturned the money changer's tables, and whipped them all out of the temple. Does not sound like he was all Love and Peace, does it?

Jesus would forgive those who asked forgiveness. No doubts there. However, to purposefully continue committing a sin means you really were not sorry you did it to start with, and thus you were not forgiven. To be forgiven you must make an attempt to not keep committing the sin you asked forgiveness for.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSage
Jesus would definately NOT be saying we should condone a homosexual way of life. Jesus is the man who picked up a whip, entered the temple, overturned the money changer's tables, and whipped them all out of the temple. Does not sound like he was all Love and Peace, does it?



I thought that story was to show that Jesus was a human and that we make mistakes? I dont recall being taught that his outburst in the temple was a disireable way of acting towards other people...

adenosine

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
I completely disagree with that. You have no right to not be offended by someone else's opinions even if they are cruel.


WELL, thats very very interesting. Ill have to digest this for a while .. kind of a different way of looking at it for me.. honestly I was ignorant of how things actually are

adenosine

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsk00l
And while I respect DD being black, if I saw him walking toward me in a dark alley I would whip out my poster of tittydawg and run away while he tries to hump the poster.

See, discrimination is a good thing in some cases. Not that he's black, but he's just a horny bastid.


DD is black?? Dang it, that means I have to hate you now!

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

I completely disagree with that. You have no right to not be offended by someone else's opinions even if they are cruel.

In your own home, it's your castle. Out in public, forget it. You have no such right. So cowboy up and deal with it.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Verbal abuse is not against the law nor should it be. That is nazi crap, thought police crap. I don't want that in my country. If you don't have the self reliance to fend off a few a-holes then you are a bigger problem than they are.

That comment is not necessarily directed @ you personally, btw.


Oh really??? I seriously thought that if someone walked up to you and started verbally harrassing you that there were laws to protect one from that? Verbal abuse can be as damaging as physical abuse so I dont see why you wouldnt want peopel to have protection from that.. and from personal experience, the hatred towards gay people is more than " just a few a- holes "

im not saying it has to be "thougth police" .. obviously you cant force someone to believe anything.. i just thought that if you had hateful thoughts towards someone who was not harming other people, you had to keep it to yourself..

and yea i know its not directed only at me, thanks

adenosine

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Verbal abuse is not against the law nor should it be. That is nazi crap, thought police crap. I don't want that in my country. If you don't have the self reliance to fend off a few a-holes then you are a bigger problem than they are.

That comment is not necessarily directed @ you personally, btw.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Verbal abuse is not against the law nor should it be. That is nazi crap, thought police crap. I don't want that in my country. If you don't have the self reliance to fend off a few a-holes then you are a bigger problem than they are.

That comment is not necessarily directed @ you personally, btw.

I agree. Fascism is bad.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
What the hell is this, the happy police? If someone out there has intolerant beliefs about race or whatever, and they decide to make an ass out of themselves by advertising that with hurtful comments, they have that right. It's ridiculous for the thought and feeler police to go running around locking people up because someone was insulted. Someone earlier in the thread was equating hate speech with discrimination, which it is not IMO.

Now if I held something like your sexual preference over your head in the job market that would be another thing.

Well, isnt there something in the law that says everyone has the right to feel safe, either from physical or verbal abuse? Telling someone they are gross or disgusting or a "faggot" because they are gay, would be verbal abuse no?

Adenoseine

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

What the hell is this, the happy police? If someone out there has intolerant beliefs about race or whatever, and they decide to make an ass out of themselves by advertising that with hurtful comments, they have that right. It's ridiculous for the thought and feeler police to go running around locking people up because someone was insulted. Someone earlier in the thread was equating hate speech with discrimination, which it is not IMO.

Now if I held something like your sexual preference over your head in the job market that would be another thing.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Then again, we are only human. Can we expect everyone to become completely sin free? Even turn away completely from one sin throughout their whole life? Of course not. This is why we must not be quick to shun them, descriminate them, hate them, etc. Of course they could and should change, just as all sinners should. But they will NEVER accomplish that with how half of America is acting. If Jesus were here today, how do you think he would approach homosexuals? Would he push legislation to make their way of life outlawed, shun them, create a political base on all of this, then gather followers to make him more powerful? Or, do you think he would try to reach out to them? Would he try to be a friend or an enemy?

This is where I see a great hypocrasy with the status quo of the Republican party. With all of this, I have lost respect for the Right, there really is no Left, so where to go from now? I dunno.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

I'm still wondering why nobody has responded to anything I said on page 4 and 5.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ew2x4
I'm still wondering why nobody has responded to anything I said on page 4 and 5.
I'm still looking for a post on page 4 but all I see on page 5 is this quote. Please, it's too late in the day to be playing tricks on me. I'm tired.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ew2x4
And if we took everything from the Old Testament to heart, we'd still be Jewish. Fact is, when Jesus Christ was born, so was a new forgiving God. Would Jesus want to kill everyone that is gay, has commited adultry, engaged in beastiality, and whatever else he said to Moses still stand when he was hung on the cross and asked forgiveness for those who put him there?

Let me ask you (or any right wing Christian, for that matter. I'm curious) something. When God says: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life," what does that mean to you? Of course homosexuality is a sin. So is hate. So is smoking. So is not eating right. So is killing someone. Etc. etc. etc. So now that God realizes that everyone is equal, and if you ask for forgiveness and you believe in Christ, you will go to heaven. If you dont do those things, you go to hell. Why do Republicans and televangelist Christians insist that homosexuals are the center of the debate on the next president? Why are homosexuals being the center of debate on if you're going to hell or not? And so on and so on... Let's talk about those people that don't realize your body is your temple and fill it with endless ammounts of crap, or those who drink to get drunk, or those that smoke like a train. I can continue on and on, but hopefully, you get the point. So, I'd just like to figure out why people really think these things. Because I am a devout Christian and I went from respecting the Republican party when Bush senior was in office and when Dole ran, to realizing they are doing nothing but USING the Christian faith for votes. Does our constitution REALLY need to restrict rights, when it's main purpose is to enforce those rights? No, but it gets those televangelists out there to spread the word, and the gets the votes rolling in.

You got this wrong. It was the homosexual activists who pushed this issues. Everything you see right now is a reaction to that agenda they pushed. They put up initiative after initiative and lost. The public does not like their agenda so they then went to sympathetic judges who then legislated from the bench against the will of the people. They were the ones who pushed this issue and have been doing so the for last 15 years.

As far as you speech about sin and forgiveness there is a little word called repentence, it means turning away from. If you do not repent then you are not forgiven, there for continued sin be it any of the ones you mentioned included the practice of homosexual sex is not forgiven.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adenoseine
Well, isnt there something in the law that says everyone has the right to feel safe, either from physical or verbal abuse? Telling someone they are gross or disgusting or a "faggot" because they are gay, would be verbal abuse no?
No.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Ok my thinking otherwise obviously points to me not understanding the nature of things, so do you think you could explain the "no" when you have some time? Dont you think those actions would be harmful to someone?

adenosine

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Antagonizing someone is indeed verbally abusive and wrong, but it's not illegal to hurt someone's feelings. There are a lot of cases where something that is considered to be wrong is not actually illegal.

Saint Lucifer

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by adenosine
Ok my thinking otherwise obviously points to me not understanding the nature of things, so do you think you could explain the "no" when you have some time? Dont you think those actions would be harmful to someone?
There isn't any right to feel safe, not threatened or uncomortable. If there was then diarrhea would be against the law because I certainly feel uncomfortable when I have it.

Threatening people is assault, hitting people is battery. Both are against the law. There is no law to say you can't call someone a fag or say to them you life style is sinnfull and your going to hell. You will just have to grow thicker skin or never venture outside.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by adenosine
I thought that story was to show that Jesus was a human and that we make mistakes? I dont recall being taught that his outburst in the temple was a disireable way of acting towards other people...

Jesus was perfect (even Islam lists him as the only perfect person to have lived), and thus did not make mistakes.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSage
Jesus was perfect (even Islam lists him as the only perfect person to have lived), and thus did not make mistakes.

Thought that was Mohommad (or however its spelt)

Wrt the thread, DAMN it grew fast.

Why homosexuality is considered such a gigantic vice is beyond me. There are so many more things we can worry about other than a person's sexual orientation, it just defies logic.

Obviously this is from my point of view, but I really don't understand why homosexuality is considered by some a disease and something that must be rooted out?

We all preach tolerance and understanding and while I agree that fanacticism by gay activists is encroaching more and more on day to day life, it is no different than any other minority making its voice heard. At the end of the day though there is a huge divide between what is preached and what is practised.

Sazar

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDawg
I don't think you have a complete grasp of this situation. Every time this subject is polled the vast majority of people say they don't care if someone is homosexual or not just keep it private the same with heterosexual relationships. Basically people don't care what goes no in the bedroom. The reaction you see today is just that a reaction to the gay activists pushing their agenda on a population that doesn't wan't it. They just want to leave homosexuals alone and be left alone them selves. They don't like 2% of the population tell the the other 98% what to do by forcing it down their throats.

I think if you explore this subject you will see more that you currently do instead of your diatribe against Republicans.

BTW you are confused it seems to me on sin and its nature and what salvation is for.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1419-3786r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/144/31.0.html

The most deciding factor in the 2004 Presidential Election was this so called "moral values." What would these moral values be? His most public and talked about stances include the obvious Gay Marriage Ammendment, abortion, and the fact he says God Bless America. So I think it is safe to say that there is a correlation between the majority of people voting for Bush's moral values, and his stance on homosexuality.

Politicians know this, so they exploit it. They say loud and clear they are against/for something (and in most cases it doesn't matter as they have absolutely no say in the matter, see: abortion), most of the time something that is in a Christian's interest. And they don't care at all how they let it be known. Even if it is a discrimination towards a group of people. So what is the ultimate goal of the Gay Marriage Amendment? To "save marriage?" Try working on the 50% divorce rate, because straight people are doing nothing at all to save it. Bush hasn't done a thing to help that. My guess is it's for a vote. They are doing nothing but exploiting your's and my faith for a vote. I'm sorry, but when I have the ability to realize it, that's something that offends me. If we wanted to do the Christian thing and try to free them from sin, then we are going backwards and not helping a thing. So instead, we supposedly react to the gay activists by pushing this legislation that further discriminates them, which does what exactly? That really gives us the ability to reach out to them. Look at it this way. Those "2%" of gay activists, why are they fighting for rights? It might be because of the opposite 2% and people like this.

ew2x4

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
If Udawg's anything like me (and I'm sure he is), his spirituality is the center of his life. I don't see anything (apart from what the Bible says) as right or wrong. I call things that God says is wrong, wrong....and vice versa.

Random off topic philoshophical thought. If aliens invaded tomorrow, and had devices that sucked some brain goo from us, this give us intense pleasure but was also quite damaging to health. How would you decide wether this was a good or bad thing considering the bible has no context on this behaviour, essentially it lies outside its realm? I'm curious. (Perhaps if this doesn't lie outside the realm, think of something that could )

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Lucifer
Edit: With that said, I can't help but find it amusing when people call others on their hypocrisy... it's so hypocritical.

It's Udawg's hippocritical paradox, in that we all fail to meet our own standards. My repost is that does not mean we should not have those standards.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ew2x4
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1419-3786r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/144/31.0.html

The most deciding factor in the 2004 Presidential Election was this so called "moral values." What would these moral values be? His most public and talked about stances include the obvious Gay Marriage Ammendment, abortion, and the fact he says God Bless America. So I think it is safe to say that there is a correlation between the majority of people voting for Bush's moral values, and his stance on homosexuality.

Politicians know this, so they exploit it. They say loud and clear they are against/for something (and in most cases it doesn't matter as they have absolutely no say in the matter, see: abortion), most of the time something that is in a Christian's interest. And they don't care at all how they let it be known. Even if it is a discrimination towards a group of people. So what is the ultimate goal of the Gay Marriage Amendment? To "save marriage?" Try working on the 50% divorce rate, because straight people are doing nothing at all to save it. Bush hasn't done a thing to help that. My guess is it's for a vote. They are doing nothing but exploiting your's and my faith for a vote. I'm sorry, but when I have the ability to realize it, that's something that offends me. If we wanted to do the Christian thing and try to free them from sin, then we are going backwards and not helping a thing. So instead, we supposedly react to the gay activists by pushing this legislation that further discriminates them, which does what exactly? That really gives us the ability to reach out to them. Look at it this way. Those "2%" of gay activists, why are they fighting for rights? It might be because of the opposite 2% and people like this.

First things first, there is and never was a 50% divorce rate in America. In fact divorce in on othe decline. So please stop spreading a lie. You can even go check the census on this. the New York Times a liberal paper even had a big article about how the 50% divorce figure was a myth.

Yes you are correct about what the exit polls said but that does not change what I said and you didn't grasp what I said. People do not want this issue shoved in their faces and don't want a very small minority group having judges ram their made up right on them. That is why we see a back lash today. If thre wasn't this gay activist lobby ramming their agenda down our throats people don't care what you do in your bedroom. This is concrete adn has not change dispite your links because you are seeing a part of the picture which is the back lash to a agenda the people don't want. At the same time they don't want to harm homosexuals.

You link to that website and hold it up as the norm. that is intellectually dishonest and you know it. Shall I post web pages that link homosexual groups to the united socialist workers party and the international communist party and then say this is the norm for homosexuals, cuz I can and it is true but not the norm. So please save these tricks for high school debate class.

You keep talking abou the christian thing to do all the while condemming your christian brothers. You are right in teh middle of your own sin. Take the plank out of your eye before you point to the sliver in mine.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
It's Udawg's hippocritical paradox, in that we all fail to meet our own standards. My repost is that does not mean we should not have those standards.
My quote on that is a truth. There is no getting around it.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Just as any truth is constant, but I don't think that should allow us to judge or prejudge ourselves or others on that basis. Nor indeed, should we abandon holding ourselves or others to said standards. Failure is merley a step towards success.

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazar
Thought that was Mohommad (or however its spelt)



It sure did surprise me! Mohommed was not called sinless, but Jesus was. Islam considers Jesus one of the great prophets, just not the Son of God.

I cannot understand how someone can be sinless and still not be more important than a pedophile...but that is a debate for another thread.

Back on topic.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Random off topic philoshophical thought. If aliens invaded tomorrow, and had devices that sucked some brain goo from us, this give us intense pleasure but was also quite damaging to health. How would you decide wether this was a good or bad thing considering the bible has no context on this behaviour, essentially it lies outside its realm? I'm curious. (Perhaps if this doesn't lie outside the realm, think of something that could )


It harms the body. The body is considere the temple of God, and we are supposed to try to keep it healthy, etc. The brain goo sucking would damage that temple, so we should not let it happen.

Of course, it also depends on how hot the aliens were, and how they sucked out that goo.

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Remember Sam from Who's the Boss? Come on that kid had to have been born that way. He started that show when he was like 6 and you could just tell he would someday jump out of the closet and he did. As strange or funny as it seems he was proof to me that you dont learn it but was born with it. But I still think it's possibly to learn homosexuality if thats what your around all the time. Say for instance having two mothers or fathers and being the same sex as those parent. Also being locked up from a young age for many years before fully experiencing another sex may drive you to the same sex. It applies for other situations why not homosexuality?

LiquidX

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
I guess I'm the only one here that think's it's a choice. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I listened to a guy on a talk show the other day that said that he's practiced homosexuality for 15 years. He said that his father always teased him about not being like other boys, and it did not help any for him to be raised with 3 other girls. He said because of his resentment he had of his father, he related to his sisters more. Then, he said how another man (when he was 13) befriended him and took him places like his father should've done. This man (early 20's) started showing him affection (sexual perversion), and he thought that was what he was meant for. He grew up thinking he was gay, and lived the gay life style to the extent. He was even considered a gay activist, and used to do the gay parades in different cities, and the likes. He said that one day, he was with his boyfriend, and his boyfriend told him that he was about to give his life to Jesus Christ. Well, he got mad, and started cursing him, Jesus, and everything else, and just wanted to lash out at anything. After a while, this young man started seeing that he need a change in his life. He satrted hanging around his ex-lover, and started going to church, started going to counseling, and pretty soon, he started seeing that what he was told was a lie, and even though it was a tough journey, it is still one journey that can be overcame. He is now married and expecting his 2nd child.

Before I heard this man, I've already believed that it is a choice. God made Adam and Eve. There is nothing in between. I know I'm going to get alot of flack about what I've wrote, and I'll probably end up on a few ignore lists....but if I had my choice of who I'm going to believe(whether someone's theory or what the Bible says), I will go with God EVERYTIME.


Hey DD, I'm with you on going with God bro. I just think there are environmental and self-inflicted things society has done to bring about imbalance to our physical cohesion. For the most part, I *still* believe 100% that homosexuals are aware that their behavior is wrong. Despite the chemical imbalance causing the ailment, they *choose* to accept being homosexual as normal. They embrace it and want to believe this. Societal acceptance enables them to.

ChAsM

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAsM
Hey DD, I'm with you on going with God bro. I just think there are environmental and self-inflicted things society has done to bring about imbalance to our physical cohesion. For the most part, I *still* believe 100% that homosexuals are aware that their behavior is wrong. Despite the chemical imbalance causing the ailment, they *choose* to accept being homosexual as normal. They embrace it and want to believe this. Societal acceptance enables them to.
I agree. You have all sorts of learned behavioural patters that are "coming out of the closet" now--like child molestors, rapists, etc...that people are excepting as, "well, they were born that way"...and that is a lie. People choose (through circumstances, tragedies, whatnot) that lifestyle, and as a result, that find others that accepts them and then they "feel" like that's the way they should be.

DiscipleDOC

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
People choose (through circumstances, tragedies, whatnot) that lifestyle, and as a result, that find others that accepts them and then they "feel" like that's the way they should be.
Choice or not. Get a rope (rapists, murderers).

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAsM
To be more specific, could it not be clearly defined as a mental illness; a chemical imbalance in the brain? I've felt all along people should be treated for this illness, just as people are treated for schizophrenia.

Sure, however the PC crowd isn't comfortable with that, and some official group delisted it as a psychological condition in the late 70's iirc.

Currently theres no known way to treat it that I know of though. Otherwise they would probably be able to treat pedophiles, because they still conveniently consider that a medical condition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAsM
That's not a very fair assessment, is it AlphaWolf_HK? I don't believe for minute that even staunch Christians, or other religious groups, believe that there isn't some great truths in science.

Correct, until it crosses the line of their ideology.

AlphaWolf_HK

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Choice or not. Get a rope (rapists, murderers).
I agree. There's no excuse, but you've heard high $ lawyers try to excuse a convicted rapist, murderer, etc., by say it's a genetic defect. I will go as far as to say that there are chemilcal imbalance that would make a person psychologically impaired, but you will never ever hear a doctor say (at the point of delivering a baby) Congratulations! You have a bouncing baby homo!

DiscipleDOC

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Ah, Melvin, how are you feeling? Well we got the results of your blood work, and it looks like you have a mild case of "gay". Don't worry, its easily treatable. Just take two of these before meals and call me in a couple of weeks.

DaveW

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
I agree. There's no excuse, but you've heard high $ lawyers try to excuse a convicted rapist, murderer, etc., by say it's a genetic defect.
All the more reason to lock them up and throw away the key. Or execute them depending on the severity of the crime. As there is no treatment for a genetic defect of that sort then they are obviously beyond any mental rehabilitation.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Call me an optimist, but I like to think that human beings are above ordinary animals. We are self-aware enough to be capable of behaviour other than what our brain chemistry, genetic disposition and instincts are telling us. Even if you are genetically inclined towards raping someone, you should still be expected to have self-control and be responsible for your actions.

DaveW

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Even if you are genetically inclined towards raping someone, you should still be expected to have self-control and be responsible for your actions.

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Call me an optimist, but I like to think that human beings are above ordinary animals. We are self-aware enough to be capable of behaviour other than what our brain chemistry, genetic disposition and instincts are telling us. Even if you are genetically inclined towards raping someone, you should still be expected to have self-control and be responsible for your actions.

My point I was making is that there is no one that is born to rape someone, just like there is no one born to be gay. Same arguement applied.

DiscipleDOC

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

hmmm interesting, lets see...if i thought i liked guys, well i dont want to be gay because it is evil and i would burn in hell so lets see, instead of httin up guys go hit up girls, a hole is a hole, gay guys act like girls most of the time so whats the difference, get a buff body builder girl:P LOL

wshadow

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
I guess I'm the only one here that think's it's a choice. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I listened to a guy on a talk show the other day that said that he's practiced homosexuality for 15 years. He said that his father always teased him about not being like other boys, and it did not help any for him to be raised with 3 other girls. He said because of his resentment he had of his father, he related to his sisters more. Then, he said how another man (when he was 13) befriended him and took him places like his father should've done. This man (early 20's) started showing him affection (sexual perversion), and he thought that was what he was meant for. He grew up thinking he was gay, and lived the gay life style to the extent. He was even considered a gay activist, and used to do the gay parades in different cities, and the likes. He said that one day, he was with his boyfriend, and his boyfriend told him that he was about to give his life to Jesus Christ. Well, he got mad, and started cursing him, Jesus, and everything else, and just wanted to lash out at anything. After a while, this young man started seeing that he need a change in his life. He satrted hanging around his ex-lover, and started going to church, started going to counseling, and pretty soon, he started seeing that what he was told was a lie, and even though it was a tough journey, it is still one journey that can be overcame. He is now married and expecting his 2nd child.

Before I heard this man, I've already believed that it is a choice. God made Adam and Eve. There is nothing in between. I know I'm going to get alot of flack about what I've wrote, and I'll probably end up on a few ignore lists....but if I had my choice of who I'm going to believe(whether someone's theory or what the Bible says), I will go with God EVERYTIME.

DD, my point is what you are saying. It is a human condition. My opinion is based on many studies. Research suggests that it is a condition the same as a person who like vegatables and another doesn't. You still have a choice to eat vegetables but you still don't like them. Later in life you may like them and vise versa. Basically you can be gay at one point in life and not gay at another point and the same goes with heterosexuals. You can choose to not engage in that behavior but to say simpley that is just a matter of choice diminishes how strong this condition is for that person. It would be like me telling you that you can't bag Gib's mom anymore in the public bathrooms.

UDawg

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDawg
DD, my point is what you are saying. It is a human condition. My opinion is based on many studies. Research suggests that it is a condition the same as a person who like vegatables and another doesn't. You still have a choice to eat vegetables but you still don't like them. Later in life you may like them and vise versa. Basically you can be gay at one point in life and not gay at another point and the same goes with heterosexuals. You can choose to not engage in that behavior but to say simpley that is just a matter of choice diminishes how strong this condition is for that person. It would be like me telling you that you can't bag Gib's mom anymore in the public bathrooms.
QFT

DiscipleDOC

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazar
I would think it is more like something that a person is BORN with. If it were a lifestyle choice than you have just contradicted your previous comment.


OOPS! I missed the word NOT in my sentence, I will correct it to say "not a lifestyle choice"

Thanks! Just a mistype. Sorry to confuse!

CybrSage

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
If you are religious then this is easy. The bible is clearly against this. It is abomination. Other major religions also feel the same way AFAIK, or at least the majority of them.

Where it gets sticky is if you are agnostic or atheist. Then how do you defend your position on this? After all, as Netviper has pointed out in the past the family unit (traditionally speaking) is no longer required for reproduction. Science has made it possible now that people can get around nature. It's a huge gray area. A heart transplant isn't natural. It would be natural to just let that person die. So we are already doing things that twist nature around. It's a sticky spot really.

I could be wrong, but it's my belief that Netviper and other "progressives" really would have absolutely no problem with a society that decided all at once to embrace homosexuality completely. IOW, if all men decided to become homosexual and all women did at the same time it would be perfectly fine with him. Nothing has been ruined, you just go and get your test tube baby when you want one. Reproduction is accomplished, so what's the big deal? So what if it's not "natural"? WTF does that mean when we already do liver transplants and not let people die? We are "beyond evolution".

It all depends on where you personally draw the line. And like I said, if you are religious this is an easy discussion.

Um, no that's grossly incorrect wrt the reproduction issue. Yeah we can get a sperm and an egg together w/out the sex...but it still requires two genders. Plus look at what's happened to every nation that's tried to cast aside the family unit. Got any examples of one surviving today?

If you want to go that route, screw it, let's just become borg.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsk00l
Um, no that's grossly incorrect wrt the reproduction issue. Yeah we can get a sperm and an egg together w/out the sex...but it still requires two genders. Plus look at what's happened to every nation that's tried to cast aside the family unit. Got any examples of one surviving today?
Well ofcourse it still requires two genders, but the heterosexual act is no longer required to produce a child. That's the point. And since we already get around nature by doing heart transplants, etc. then what's the big deal?

BTW, I don't agree with it either but I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Quote:
If you want to go that route, screw it, let's just become borg.
And many people would be saying, "Why not?". What about the artificial heart? There we go again, getting around nature...

Riptide

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide
Well ofcourse it still requires two genders, but the heterosexual act is no longer required to produce a child. That's the point. And since we already get around nature by doing heart transplants, etc. then what's the big deal?

BTW, I don't agree with it either but I'm just playing devil's advocate.
And many people would be saying, "Why not?". What about the artificial heart? There we go again, getting around nature...

The way to beat that one out is the whole freedom/liberty thing. You can pursue happiness, just not up the ass.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSage
By family unit, lets all agree to use the millenia old definition that would include one mom, one dad, at least one child. That same family unit can expand to include grandma and grandpa as well.

That is the family unit that is decimated by homosexuality. That is what he is meaning.

The family unit is vital to the health of a child. Almost all books on child psychology, and those on adult psychological problems as well, will affirm this.

Explain how? Does a homosexual give them the jeebies so much that the family unit can't raise their child anymore? I mean if the man or woman has started a family, chances are they're straight. Does the homosexual child make the mom and dad incapable of producing more kids? Also, since when does being able to knock out kids prove your value to a society?

A childs health can be better with a homosexual family, if it is well raised, than if it were raised in an orphange in "care". You're not telling me that is bad too?

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleDOC
Homosexuality DOES ruin homes. How can two people procreate if they are of the same sex?

Why does being able to produce kids determine your value to society? Being infertile destroys the famil unit too. Should we hate infertile people?

sytaylor

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Explain how? Does a homosexual give them the jeebies so much that the family unit can't raise their child anymore? I mean if the man or woman has started a family, chances are they're straight. Does the homosexual child make the mom and dad incapable of producing more kids? Also, since when does being able to knock out kids prove your value to a society?

A childs health can be better with a homosexual family, if it is well raised, than if it were raised in an orphange in "care". You're not telling me that is bad too?

My point is not that homosexuals can't raise a kid just fine, but that it causes so much discord within the family due to the loss of direct lineage that it's a direct factor in weakening the family.

oldsk00l

Medical Study gives proof homosexuality is a physical aberration

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
Why does being able to produce kids determine your value to society? Being infertile destroys the famil unit too. Should we hate infertile people?

infertile people don't have a choice

oldsk00l

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