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Question 6510b and 6710b ( Notebook Forums and Laptop Discussion HP Compaq )
Updated: 2008-02-14 07:53:04 (43)
6510b and 6710b

I'm looking for a nice durable and reliable laptop, with Santa Rosa. Are the business compaqs at the same level with thinkpad and latitude?

Answers: 6510b and 6710b ( Notebook Forums and Laptop Discussion HP Compaq )
6510b and 6710b

HP Compaq Business≈Dell Latitude≈Lenovo Thinkpad

Homer_Jay_Thompson

6510b and 6710b

Have you tried the keyboard on HP's business notebooks? They are really comfortable to type on, unlike anything else on the market. The main problem with HP Compaq is that it's not "legendary". So, if you're after a "legendary" product with brand name to match, the Thinkpad is suitable. Else, there's nothing the Thinkpad can do better than the HP.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

hi, please keep us updated on the fan issue.

micron

6510b and 6710b

I'm starting to see a trend with HP's and their "hyperactive" fans...

Obviously, a cool running laptop is great and all, but whats the deal? My 3 year old HP laptop is a relatively thin computer (roughly 1.5in thickness), and it's content to keep its fan off for extended periods during light computing.

ZT3000!

6510b and 6710b

Contacted HP tech support regarding the fan issue. Ha, gave me a laugh when she said "I just tried it on the 6710b model we have and it is indeed loud. However, 6710b is our special business model that is supposed to be kept cool so that is a normal behavior." To which I replied, "a notebook whose fan spins up whenever I move the mouse is normal? Shouldn't you issue a product recall?"

Anyway, she elevated my case to higher level (whatever that really means), so I will know in few days whether to return this and 15 other identical notebooks or not.

nutmac

6510b and 6710b

Some additional spent time on 6710b. The fan is becoming pretty annoying. Even a minor action like clicking on the Start menu would often trigger fan to spin up. Hopefully, a firmware/driver update would address this. On more positive note, the LCD is pretty nice. No backlight leakage, no dead/stuck pixel, pretty even wide angle display. Far better than Dell's.

nutmac

6510b and 6710b

I just upgraded from a Compaq nc6230 to a 6710b with Vista Business.

The fan runs all the time. Well maybe not *all* the time but at least every other 15 seconds or so. I even disable the Aero interface to see if that was stressing the cpu/gpu but that didn't make any difference. The widescreen is great for video playback but they really made a boneheaded move with the placement of the fingerprint reader. My wrist constantly *rubs* the reader/scanner and brings the little prompt window to the front at the most annoying times. I do plan to use the security feature so disabling it isn;t an option.

Not much else worth noting. -2cents

titleist

6510b and 6710b

I just received 6710b as well (2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD, DVD+RW LightScribe, WSXGA+, fingerprint, Vista Business, 3-year warranty).

(My previous notebooks were ThinkPad and PowerBook. I currently use 20-inch iMac and I returned Dell Inspiron before getting 6710b for my wife.)

Quick notes:
  1. When you first turn it on, you have the choice of 32-bit or 64-bit Vista. I chose 32-bit for maximum compatibility.
  2. It takes over an hour to get the system to finish setting itself up. It probably would've taken me just as long to do a clean install.
  3. Bloated default install, although I suppose other PC makers are generally worse -- Google toolbar, Roxio Creator, Norton Internet Security, WinDVD, Office 2007, MS SQL Server 2005
  4. Fan is on almost constantly during setup but settles down after.
  5. Fan is a bit louder than Dell and MacBook Pro.
  6. Keyboard is top notch.
  7. Trackpad is a bit too small.
  8. I am not sure if I like the 2-tone (dark gray and black) design. Doesn't look very seemless.
  9. Fit and finish is alright. It does seem sturdy and professional (with more taste than ThinkPad), but nowhere near as stylish as Macs.

nutmac

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
Have you tried the keyboard on HP's business notebooks?
I'm writing on one at the moment. Thanks for asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
They are really comfortable to type on, unlike anything else on the market.
Erm, is that scientific...?

For example, I'm writing on the HP nc8430 right now and if I have to be too harsh there is a little flex on the right side.... and I also have the T60 here and this cannot happen on its keyboard...so....

In the end, as I said before the keyboard is rather a personal preference and obviously I have mine...that's why I suggested that people should try them both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
The main problem with HP Compaq is that it's not "legendary". So, if you're after a "legendary" product with brand name to match, the Thinkpad is suitable.
In case you don't know the things happen for a reason. The HP Pavilions are also "legendary" but for other reason. Otherwise, Latitude is a nice name and the notebooks are quite well build but hell... the legend is missing...wondering why? It's not like that someone has fabricated that otherwise a hude company like HP would write a legend right now... lol obviously, it doesn't work that way.

And, I don't think that the HP Compaq has a problem, I could care less whether something is legendary or not as long as it offers quality but I also can compare and say what I like better and having a HP and a TP in front of me kind of help me so I would not let some kind of legend fool me (some people would... not my problem though) but I do happen to support the legend, isn't that simple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
Else, there's nothing the Thinkpad can do better than the HP.
Well, it can have better build quality, actually that is a proven fact. If you don't mind to talk about facts...or that bothers you?

Dreamer

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
I'm writing on one at the moment. Thanks for asking.
Erm, is that scientific...?

For example, I'm writing on the HP nc8430 right now and if I have to be too harsh there is a little flex on the right side.... and I also have the T60 here and this cannot happen on its keyboard...so....

In the end, as I said before the keyboard is rather a personal preference and obviously I have mine...that's why I suggested that people should try them both.

Well, it can have better build quality, actually that is a proven fact. If you don't mind to talk about facts...or that bothers you?
I agree the keyboard is a personal preference, so people should try them both. Similarly, I have seen Thinkpads that suffer from build quality issues too. It really depends on what you get (they are all produced in volumes and no one guarantees you'll get a perfect build). I'm not saying the build quality on the HP is perfect, but I'd say they are on par.
My intention isn't to say Thinkpads are not good products because they are excellent products. It's just that too many people have overlooked other offerings that perform just as well because of the wide-held belief that Thinkpads overrule everything else on the market.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
Have you tried the keyboard on HP's business notebooks?
I'm writing on one at the moment. Thanks for asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
They are really comfortable to type on, unlike anything else on the market.
Erm, is that scientific...?

For example, I'm writing on the HP nc8430 right now and if I have to be too harsh there is a little flex on the right side.... and I also have the T60 here and this cannot happen on its keyboard...so....

In the end, as I said before the keyboard is rather a personal preference and obviously I have mine...that's why I suggested that people should try them both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
The main problem with HP Compaq is that it's not "legendary". So, if you're after a "legendary" product with brand name to match, the Thinkpad is suitable.
In case you don't know the things happen for a reason. The HP Pavilions are also "legendary" but for other reason. Otherwise, Latitude is a nice name and the notebooks are quite well build but hell... the legend is missing...wondering why? It's not like that someone has fabricated that otherwise a hude company like HP would write a legend right now... lol obviously, it doesn't work that way.

And, I don't think that the HP Compaq has a problem, I could care less whether something is legendary or not as long as it offers quality but I also can compare and say what I like better and having a HP and a TP in front of me kind of help me so I would not let some kind of legend fool me (some people would... not my problem though) but I do happen to support the legend, isn't that simple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
Else, there's nothing the Thinkpad can do better than the HP.
Well, it can have better build quality, actually that is a proven fact. If you don't mind to talk about facts...or that bothers you?

Dreamer

6510b and 6710b

The ThinkPads are better than the HP "nc" series in terms of build quality and keyboard.

Besides the typical magnesium alloy roll cage in the case and lid Lenovo reinforces the chassis of the T series with carbon-fiber, they basically can be considered as semi-rugged notebooks. The ThinkPad keyboards are better designed and more comfortable to my mind, you should try them since that is rather a personal preference but their keyboards are legendary for a reason... as for the clickyness, Lenovo uses tree different type of keyboards and one of them is a bit noisier...not a big deal though.

Also, ThinkVantage is a great software pack but I would not really count this as a something so important but there is another minor detail called ThinkLight - keyboard light which is a very useful feature and also you have an Ultra Bay…

Either way, the HP "nc" series is very close to the ThinkPads but definitely not at the same level while the Latitudes are behind both of them... However, if I were to choose between these the decision factor would be the battery life, screen quality and video card options...

For example, I can't stand batteries that stick out of the back and here is where Lenovo dropped the ball on the new 14.1" T61 at least for me… Also, HP has one 15.4 gaming notebook while Lenovo doesn’t… so it depends on what you need.

Dreamer

6510b and 6710b

Although the margin is close, from what I have seen, Thinkpads are slightly better but Lattitudes worse.

Ultimately though from an individual's perspective they are all close enough that price/performance/features should be the deciding factor.

For example, I went with the nc8430 because I wanted a business class 15.4" laptop with a good gaming videocard for the size (ATI x1600). Lenovo's and Dell's were all Intel GMA's or workstation type cards.

celondil

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobob
What about shock resistant HDD casing? Spill proof keyboard? Does it feel solid?
Yes, yes and yes. It matches industry standards for business notebook features, so everything you expect for a business notebook will be there.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

[quote=bimbo;2122999]Now just one question remains: how do you really make sure to get a new one...

So, what is indeed the current status? If indeed this has been resolved in a newer series of these notebooks, is there a mechanism for determining a "good" unit?

Monroe

6510b and 6710b

What about shock resistant HDD casing? Spill proof keyboard? Does it feel solid?

psychobob

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaZ
You base this on what?
Lol ZaZ, Chill out man

Needmore4less

6510b and 6710b



They are better than thinkpads and latitude

mtor

6510b and 6710b

Lol, ZaZ is a Thinkpad fan, so he will tend to disagree. This is an HP forum, so opinions will be more favourable towards the HP.
HP Compaq business notebooks are very well-built. In my opinion, HP Compaq, Dell's Latitude and Lenovo's Thinkpads are equivalent. None of them actually triumps over the other, but HP has the advantage of a better design. I suspect the materials are more durable as well as the top cover and outer assembly have scratch-proof coating. I like HP's keyboard better than any of the other two as they are less clicky. Thinkpad keyboards are too clicky for me.

Lenovo's Thinkpad has the advantage of ThinkVantage software, which are just management utilities for your notebook. HP doesn't have such a great software suite, but this is just really minor details.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

IMO They're better than the thinkpads.

Fant

6510b and 6710b

IMO They're better than the thinkpads.

Fant

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fant
IMO They're better than the thinkpads.
You base this on what?

ZaZ

6510b and 6710b

Now just one question remains: how do you really make sure to get a new one...

I think I'll talk to HP and get a confirmation before I buy that it will get replaced if I get a lemon.

bimbo

6510b and 6710b

You want this ? New ones are quiet, the hyperactive fan is caused by faulty termistor on the motherboard of the first models, I'm going to Service Center on Monday, and see if they are willing to replace the motherboard inside my machine...

Don Martinez

6510b and 6710b

Do you happen to have a link for the HP forums?

bimbo

6510b and 6710b

As I have read on the HP support forums new 6710bs are quiet and it is really annoying that may lapptop which arrived on Thursday spins the fan all the time (even when the screensaver is on ), but I hope they're finally working on this...

Don Martinez

6510b and 6710b

I couldn't get Speedfan to recognise the fans, so it didn't work for me.
BIOS F.08 works well on my nc6400 since it fixes most of these ACPI-related problems and the fans have since been quiet. F.09 seems to have broken it again (this is the actual file HP uploaded on its servers despite it being listed as F.0A, so the update posted really isn't the true final copy).
The fans can be controlled in NHC using the module files written by some people over at http://www.p35-forum.de. The ones for nc6400 doesn't seem to work as the variables have changed in the newer BIOS revisions. Hate it when HP keeps changing the variable names so people can't hack around with the sensors, but we only do it because their engineers screwed up.

It is really ridiculous for them to screw this up on the newer notebooks again as it has been a problem which they are supposed to have fixed in their older models. This is like starting the trouble from scratch.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

Hi, can you try Speedfan to see if it works? It is a program that reports the temperature of your pc components, and allows you to control the pc fans according to these temperatures. The program is very easy to use: the main page shows all reported temperatures and fan speeds, and the % display allows you to speed up/down the computer fan.

Not all hardware can be controlled through software however, but if this laptop can then this is the easiest way to reduce noise.

DoomCastle

6510b and 6710b

I have had the 6510b for a few weeks now, and haven't had any problems with the fan. I live in DK, so could be a different bios that makes the difference. Started out with changing the option in bios for fan being on all the time when running on AC power from on to off.

Selector

6510b and 6710b

*bump*

Any news on the fan noise issues? Do nx7400 suffer of the same problem?

Sadly, 1680x1050 15wide laptops with Intel Graphics are a very rare breed (the Thinkpads with integrated memory aren't on sale in Switzerland, only Lenovo knows why) and Intel graphics has by far the best Linux support...

bimbo

6510b and 6710b

I have had the 6510b for a few weeks now, and haven't had any problems with the fan. I live in DK, so could be a different bios that makes the difference. Started out with changing the option in bios for fan being on all the time when running on AC power from on to off.

Selector

6510b and 6710b

Hi Guys, greetings from Germany,
I own an 6510b and have the same problem, like 4 other person who i could find as i reported the problem in a forum thread http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread.php?t=357229 . So i called HP, they know nothing about the problem and forwarded my case to 2nd level support (they wanted to sending me standard stuff questions, like what i os i use and such, so the guys in 2nd level support feel better or something, still dont got the mail).
Today the notebook and retured, the mainboard was replaced and and "bios upgrade" was installed (i think was another bios on mainboard before).
But actually its the same problem with the fan, it runs too often and too loud (actually its minimal better now, but ... )
Ive heard the same problem was fixed in the Pavilion Series with the F27 Bios. I hope that HP will Ship a new Bios soon .... i see no other way. If nothing happens next time i maybe try to contact the bigger computer press and talk to them ...

EDIT: I tried Speedfan, it doesnt works, same for NHC

fly3rman

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx
I have a suspicion it's a broken ACPI again as exhibited in the earlier versions of the nc8430/nc6400 BIOS revisions when it was first released. However, I guess we need to see if other users are exhibiting similar issues. It would be really silly of HP engineers if they release new models with broken BIOSes again.
You shouldn't have to ship the notebook back for a "diagnosis". I would be firm and insist they either confirm it's a problem they can't fix (for which they should offer a refund) or if the unit is defective, just exchange it because being a HP service centre, they must have adequate knowledge of their products, whether new or old.
I have a nc6400 and i've tried both the F.0A and the F.08 bios. The F.08 bios is the original bios, whereas the F.0A was released in April 2007. The F.08 is definitely superior as the fan comes on very rarely. The only time it comes on is when it's running on ac power and turns on at 50C and turns off at 45C.

The fan properties of the F.08 bios are as follows:

The cycling of the fan on ac power is attributed to the inability of the processor to go into a C3 sleep state. On AC power, the max sleep state is C2, so it never reaches an optimal level of power saving.

On battery power, it's a whole different story, as the fan rarely turns on for my notebook. If the room is relatively cool (i'm currently in a room that's about 79F), the proc idles around 46-47 and the fan does not turn on. In addition, the processer also enters the C3 state, so it's reaching it's maximum power saving level.

Using the F.0A bios, the fan cycles on and off, regardless of whether the notebook is running ac power or battery. Checking perfmon does show the same processor states as the F.08 bios, but for some reason, the notebook heats up much quicker. The release notes of this bios states that no change was made with thermal management, but i think they did change something.

Due to this, i reverted back to the F.08 bios and i'm enjoying a cooler running notebook. One thing i did notice is if i loaded the F.08 , i had to reset the bios settings in order get the optimal fan properties that i described above. If i didn't, the notebook would still exhibit the same thermal properties of the F.0A bios and the fan would cycle on and off constantly.

These are just my observations of this notebook.

byoo511

6510b and 6710b

Can you please check whether the fan can be software-controlled through programs like Speedfan and Notebook Hardware Control?

This knowledge would be greatly appreciated by potential buyers!

DoomCastle

6510b and 6710b

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutmac
Contacted HP tech support regarding the fan issue. Ha, gave me a laugh when she said "I just tried it on the 6710b model we have and it is indeed loud. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutmac
HP called me back today. Perhaps due to newness of the model, HP cannot offer any workaround or solution, and want me to ship the product to them to investigate without offering any guarantees toward resolving the issue.
Why they just cannot test their own loud models that they have and admit screwing up against the world again? Or provide the solution asap..

sledge

6510b and 6710b

I can confirm that the fan is an issue, and big issue for me on the 6710b. Its really very loud and I've read other posts saying the same thing so I don't think its just a product specific issue. Also I'm in europe, not sure where nutmac is. It really annoys me that they released the product with such a basic flaw. It couldn't cost that much to have a better quality fan and properly functioning bios. Its not something that you can read in the specs either so it kind of slaps you in the face after you've spent (wasted) a couple of hours setting up the machine. If HP think that I'm just going to grin and bear it then they're wrong. I'd hate to think what will happen if a company places a bulk order for these machines and ends up turning its offices into an airport terminal. I'm returning this laptop tomorrow. A real shame, the laptop is otherwise a good machine.

business_user

6510b and 6710b

HP had the same problem with their previous generaiton NC/NX line notebooks. I still can't believe they are having the same problem with their new generation one since it was a very big deal last time (and ultimately led me to buying a Thinkpad instead).

When Lenovo customers complained about the always on fan on the Thinkpad T60, Lenovo designed a more robust and powerful cooling system for the T61. In contrast, it seems, HP did nothing.

IAmTheEvilest

6510b and 6710b

I have a suspicion it's a broken ACPI again as exhibited in the earlier versions of the nc8430/nc6400 BIOS revisions when it was first released. However, I guess we need to see if other users are exhibiting similar issues. It would be really silly of HP engineers if they release new models with broken BIOSes again.
You shouldn't have to ship the notebook back for a "diagnosis". I would be firm and insist they either confirm it's a problem they can't fix (for which they should offer a refund) or if the unit is defective, just exchange it because being a HP service centre, they must have adequate knowledge of their products, whether new or old.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

I have a suspicion it's a broken ACPI again as exhibited in the earlier versions of the nc8430/nc6400 BIOS revisions when it was first released. However, I guess we need to see if other users are exhibiting similar issues. It would be really silly of HP engineers if they release new models with broken BIOSes again.
You shouldn't have to ship the notebook back for a "diagnosis". I would be firm and insist they either confirm it's a problem they can't fix (for which they should offer a refund) or if the unit is defective, just exchange it because being a HP service centre, they must have adequate knowledge of their products, whether new or old.

chrixx

6510b and 6710b

HP called me back today. Perhaps due to newness of the model, HP cannot offer any workaround or solution, and want me to ship the product to them to investigate without offering any guarantees toward resolving the issue. Since I purchased the notebook elsewhere, that would prevent me from returning the notebook.

And guess what? I would have to pay 15% restocking fee to return the product. Thank goodness for American Express's purchase protection. Needless to say, my next several computer purchases won't be HP (and won't be Dell either since I had many problems with their lackluster customer service).

Anyway, considering similar notebooks from Dell, Lenovo, and Apple do not exhibit such problem, this is downright shameful.

nutmac

6510b and 6710b

THE ANSWER

Hi everybody,
I have followed this thread and a number of others as I really want this laptop!
THIS legendary quote comes from here; http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/f...49760+28353475

by a guy named Ricky D


"OK, here's the deal everyone. I got hold of an internal HP document (don't ask me how) which describes HP is aware of the problem, and best of all they have a fix!!

DESCRIPTION
This document applies to HP Notebook PCs with Microsoft Windows Vista
The notebook PC fan does not shut off, runs in high speed only and creates a loud fan noise. The loud fan noise is due to the volume of air being pushed.

SERVICE ACTION
This is a "Fix-on-Failure" service event. Proactive service is neither necessary nor authorized.

If a notebook exhibiting this failure falls within the scope indicated above, is within warranty, was built between 4/1/2007 and 6/9/2007, the serial number range is between CNU714XXXX to CNU723XXXX, please set up a service event.

Service:
If a notebook exhibiting this failure comes in for service, replace the system board with the appropriate following spare part:
HP Compaq 6510b Notebook PC: SPS-BD SYS GM (DF) 446906-001
HP Compaq 6710b Notebook PC: SPS-BD SYS (FF) 446904-001
HP Compaq 6710s Notebook PC: SPS-BD SYS +WWAN(FF) 446905-001

NOTE: System boards with revision x.31 and above do not have this issue.
Recommended Action: Fix on Specified Failure

Hardware Platforms Affected: HP Compaq 6510b Notebook PC, HP Compaq 6710b Notebook PC, HP Compaq 6710s Notebook PC
Operating Systems Affected: Microsoft Windows Vista Business (32-bit)
Software Affected: Not Applicable


So there you have it boys and girls ... You now know the serial numbers which are involved, you know the problem, you know the cure, you even know the part numbers

Oh yes, one last thing ... in case you really get a 'deny everything' support engineer on the phone when calling .. I'll even throw in the Service Advisory Document ID: c01106598

Try denying THAT on the phone

Good luck to everyone!!! "

In conclusion, if you want to buy this laptop make sure the serial #
is above CNU723XXXX (so CNU724XXXX and upwards).

kylehicks

6510b and 6710b

My Serial is CNU734 and the fan is loud !!!!

urxtream

6510b and 6710b

Fan issue: 6510b, CNU737...

frency

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