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Question Seattle WA OTA ( AVS Forum Local HDTV Info and Reception )
Updated: 2008-06-11 08:30:12 (3270)
Seattle WA OTA

I've been able to receive Channel 27 (28-1, 28-2, 28-3, 28-4) KBTS, the Bates Community College PBS station since Monday.
Also, I notice KCTS Channel 9 is now multicasting all PBS feeds.
Lastly, Channel 33-1 (32) and a couple of shopping channels from Bellevue must have boosted power because I can get them in Shoreline quite well. They were not receivable prior.
I checked briefly, but didn't find similar post. If redundant, it is as my signature:

Answers: Seattle WA OTA ( AVS Forum Local HDTV Info and Reception )
Seattle WA OTA

I'm getting D-25-1 and D32 and some signal from D41 in Brier, but nothing from the major networks - ABC, NBC, CBS. I'm gonna try a better antenna and hope for the best. I wish they would boost some of the signals - i'm getting the analog portions of CBS (A7) pretty good, but nothing from D-39. Frustrating.

hdnewbie

Seattle WA OTA

I am in Lynnwood (where I-5 and I-405 meet) and with the Silver Sensor pointing South-ish I am able to get KBTC (PBS Tacoma) as well. All Seattle stations are a giver. At that one antenna position I also pick up PAX and FOX/WB (13-1/13-2 from Bremerton). KCTS, WB (and FOX on DT 25) are trabsmitted from Capitol Hill. KOMO, KING, KONG, KIRO are transmitted from Queen Anne Hill. I guess you just have to try different antennas at difference positions to find the one that works. Good luck!

tuquet

Seattle WA OTA

Hi,
I'm in North Brier, very close to alderwood mall in what appears to be a hole where signals don't reach.

I'm using a channelmaster 4221 and currently have pointed every which way from around 10' high. My neighbors would have a heartattack if I put it up on the roof.

I'm gonna try it in the attic tonight to try and grab some more channels.

Have you tried many different attennas? This is my first and, while it really beats the indoor antenna, it doesn't seem to tune in to the 3 stations I really want - ABC,NBC, and CBS - digital of course ;-)

hdnewbie

Seattle WA OTA

I heard the 4221 was a good one. I never had to try that far though. I started out with Radio Shack amplified VHF/UHF and later settled with Jensen TV-920. They all worked but interference was annoying at times. The Jensen was better when I put it on a Southern window, and by closing the aluminum blind behind it, it took away the interference. I just had to have a 10' cable hanging there and to close the blind most of the times. I tried the Terk-55 outdoors and it was worse than the cheapest rabbit ear from Radio Shack. The silver sensor was my latest try and it worked wonder. It is weird that you cannot receive the stations from Queen Anne Hill given its proximity to Capitol Hill. Do you have clear sight to that direction? One solution is to move to my neighborhood. Cheers.

tuquet

Seattle WA OTA

Are the digital signals weaker than the analog? I find that I can get a lot of analog signals coming from tacoma and seattle by adjusting the antenna. thanks for the help.

hdnewbie

Seattle WA OTA

I have no ideas, sorry. But with RS and Jensen antennas I got snowy 22 (WB) and 16 (KONG). With the SS, 16 is crystal clear, 22 is a bit less. I have not tried other channels. My TU-DST52 roughly pulls in most stations at 85%, UPN at 60% and KBTC at 33%. Yes, 33% and no dropping. I did have some difficulties with CBS, try 32 (KONG), 38 (ABC) and 48 (NBC) to see if you have any luck. Does your receiver have a signal meter? Check to see if it gets but cannot lock on the signal. May be you get too much multipath? Circuit City does carry the Silver Sensor, you can borrow and try it out.

tuquet

Seattle WA OTA

hey thanks for the help.
I'll go by circuit city and pick up a silver sensor as well as try my channelmaster in the attic. the things we do for hdtv :-)

hdnewbie

Seattle WA OTA

hdnewbie,

If you care to post your nearest intersection I can plot your line-of-site to the QA towers in my topo program and see what might be in the way. I have done this for a number of people so they would know if they needed a 100' mast to clear some hill in the way. I have the 4228 antenna in north Seattle and I get very good signals on everything except the Bates channels in Tacoma. The digital signals are much weaker than a normal analog channel. Sometimes only 10% strength.

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Hey larry,

i'm on a culdesac on 215th pl. sw in brier,wa 98036. The nearest intersection is poplar and vine/216th pl. I played around in the attic tonite and nothing came up. I'm gonna try a silver sensor tommorow and hope for the best. thanks for the help.

hdnewbie

Seattle WA OTA

hdnewbie,

Sorry I took so long to respond - I was out of town.

Your line-of-site to QA has one large problem: 150 hill to your southwest (about 3/4 mile away). aka the Mountlake hump. 100' tower? Perhaps a helium ballon with copper wire tether? Or wait for Comcast?

sorry, it does not look good,

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

oh well,
i'll wait for the new Dish Network HD service. 100' antenna would be great for the neighborhood ;-) thanks anyway.

hdnewbie

Seattle WA OTA

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping to get some advice. I'm in the final stages of completing my HT (projector should arrive any day now). I will have a DVI input for HDTV available but I don't know which way to go:

1.) OTA: can I even get a signal? There are hills around here that may be in the line of sight. How do I find out without buying gear, setting it up and then return it if I can't receive the signals?

2.) DirecTV or Comcast: I currently have digital cable and I'm not overly impressed with the content I get for the $90 or so I pay them every month. As everybody knows - no local HD channels either and who knows when they will finally deliver. So I guess my question is if DirecTV is any better wrt content and pq?

I'm sorry in case these questions have been answered before. I tried a search but the site is so slow in response that it simply timed out.
Thanx in advance for your input!

Don Andres

Don Andres

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Andres

1.) OTA: can I even get a signal? There are hills around here that may be in the line of sight. How do I find out without buying gear, setting it up and then return it if I can't receive the signals?

2.) DirecTV or Comcast: I currently have digital cable and I'm not overly impressed with the content I get for the $90 or so I pay them every month. As everybody knows - no local HD channels either and who knows when they will finally deliver. So I guess my question is if DirecTV is any better wrt content and pq?
Welcome to AVSForum!!

1) Check out http://www.antennaweb.org and tell us more about your specific location in the Issaquah area.

2) I gave up on AT&T Cable (now Comcast) some time ago and switched to DirecTV. I never had digital cable but my son did and it was terrible compared to my DirecTV. We also subscribe to DirecTV local channels so we can record programs on our DirecTV with TiVo receivers/PVRs.

Comcast is more likely to eventually provide local channels since DirecTV lacks bandwidth to provide local HDTV local channels in even the major markets. But if you can get OTA (over the air) HDTV with an antenna, you should.

One simple test you could try is to tune in analog channel UHF 16 (broadcasts from Queeen Anne Hill, where KOMO, KIRO, KING and KONG digital transmitters are located) and analog UHF channel 22 (from Capitol Hill, with KCTS, KSTW/KCPQ and KTWB digital). If you get a passable picture on those 2 UHF channels from your antenna, you stand a good chance of receiving most of the local digitals OTA with your same antenna. Even if the analog UHF channels have ghosts, the digital signals from the same sites will be ghost-free and better quality than you might expect, even when not broadcasting actual HD programs.

Good Luck. Ask more questions if needed. Use PM if you want. There are many Seattle area folks on the forum that have a wealth of experience to share.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Thank you, Dave. I guess I'll pick up an antenna at Radio Shack and see if I can tune into any of the channels you mentioned.

I live about 500 yards south east of the Newport Way and highway 900 intersection, up on a hill but with higher hills west of here. I checked out antennaweb.org and based on their orientation map I might have reception. I'll give it a shot.
Thanx again,

Don Andres

Don Andres

Seattle WA OTA

I have driven by that intersection many times. I am trying to picture in my mind which hill you are referring to but my old memory is not cooperating.

Do any of your neighbors have an outdoor TV antenna? If so, you might ask them what they are able to receive, although sometimes a few yards difference can make a big difference in reception.

Let us know how you do.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Larry, can you plug in 195th and 12th NW (Shoreline 98177) in your program for reception for CH 13 and 16. I am able to get 4,5 and 7 using a indoor RS bow-tie antenna. I don't understand why I can get King but not Kong, don't they use the same tower. Thanks

richmondbeach

Seattle WA OTA

richmondbeach,

Your line of site to Capitol Hill looks pretty good. The path to QA hill is marginal. There is a 50 foot hill about 1/8 mile south of you that looks to be the worst problem. You may need a mast on the roof to get decent reception. I would try a good high-gain antenna first and put it up as high as is convenient for a test. I believe KONG is on QA hill but their power may be much lower than 4,5,7.

good luck,

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Don Andres,

I plotted your line of sight as well. It looks pretty bad. There is an 850 foot hill about 2 miles northwest of you. I am guessing that your elevation is 300-400 feet. So you have quite a difference to overcome. I would not count on any OTA HD.

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Interesting thread.... Out here in Duvall the topo maps never looked good to my installer but when they tried we got all local channels (4,5,7,9 (few variations of),11,13-1,13-2,16,22-1,22-2 etc) and even Fox from Bremerton I believe (we get 2 Fox channels in digital).

5 only came in after fitting an antenuator on the end of the line. All are 100% on the Samsung signal meter - 5 somestimes varies from 77% to 93% to 100%

With a Samsung TS160 anyone know how I can try for channels that don't scan in strong enough? What ones am I missing?

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

Thank you for doing this, Larry! Too bad you got bad news for me . . .

I guess I'm stuck with Comcast, eventually they'll have local channels in HD on cable. DirecTV will probably never do that because of bandwidth limitations so I think it doesn't make much sense for me to switch.

Thanx again.

Don Andres

Don Andres

Seattle WA OTA

pdampier,

Out of curiosity, what is your nearest intersection? I would like to see what the topo profile looks like so I can give more accurate advice to people in the future.

I don't know about the '160 but on the '150 you just punch in the digital channel number on the remote (e.g. 48 for chan 4). If it can lock in on a signal at some point it adds it to the list of channels and will show up as 'available' in the favorites list. This seems to work reliably for channels that are not found during the auto scan.

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

pdampier

I'd be interested in your antenna hardware config. I'm in a situation where topographically it doesn't look great (172nd Ave NE and NE 42nd in Redmond), but I have had some signal blips indoor w/ a Terk55 (no comments please) just holding up towards the ceiling at the West end of the living room. I haven't tried anything attic or outdoor yet because I'm debating about buying a better antenna....

generationxwing

Seattle WA OTA

You could try 282nd Place NE and NE Big Rock Road (98019) as the intersection... My road is actually NE 138th Place but its not on many maps yet...

Let me know your findings - Quite frankly I'm amazed I get a signal let alone 100% on all locals!

Re the antenna - I'm not sure of the exact make - it was installed for me but it looks like a 4248 on http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/u1.htm

There is a pre-amp on it and as I said an antenuator on the end of the coax as the signal was coming in to strong according to the installer...

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

pdampier,

Your line-of-site to QA and Capitol Hill is what I have been calling "marginal". In other words, there is a large plateau east of Redmond at 600 feet and your elevation is about 430 feet. Since the plateau is 4 miles away, a small change in your elevation (i.e. a mast on a 2-story house) can make a sizable difference. When I plot the profile the line just barely clears the plateau so it is too close to call. If you have your antenna up high enough you should have a clear path to both tower locations. Are you east or west of Big Rock Road (east side is ~ 60 feet higher).

I have the ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. Works quite well considering I too have a marginal situation. I read 50% strength without any amp. I may add another 10 feet of mast at some point. I find it interesting that the chart on the channelmaster site shows your antenna as "fringe" with a range of 45 miles and mine as " ? " with a range of 60 miles! I think the '45' must be a misprint - yagi design is very good for distance.

What brand and model amp are you using?

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

generationxwing,

Your line of site looks awful. You are at about 100 feet and 2 miles west of you is a 500 foot hill. The towers would have to be a mile high to give you a direct path (or a 200 foot mast at your end). You are probably getting some reflections (the blips) with your terk antenna. I would not invest a lot in OTA, wait for cable or dish HD. Or, move.

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

quarque: Yeah I'm on the east side of Big Rock Road. My installer also called the area "marginal" - He'd had no real success in Duvall until this one... Unfortunately I don't know the make of the pre-amp that was put in...

EDIT: Forgot to mention. Antenna is mounted about 2ft above the gutter on the 2nd floor of our house. Not even above the roofline.

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by quarque
generationxwing,

Your line of site looks awful. You are at about 100 feet and 2 miles west of you is a 500 foot hill. The towers would have to be a mile high to give you a direct path (or a 200 foot mast at your end). You are probably getting some reflections (the blips) with your terk antenna. I would not invest a lot in OTA, wait for cable or dish HD. Or, move.
Yeah, that's kind of what I figured, never hurts to ask though........I can't move, just bought this place.....d'OH.


generationxwing

Seattle WA OTA

Curious what you get for the topo of an address in Bonney Lake.

241st and 123rd East
98321

I have tried 4 antenna and paid an installer another time with no success.

keithaxis

Seattle WA OTA

keithaxis,

I see no major problem at all unless I am referencing the wrong point. My topo map is a little out of date so I have to guess where your house is. It appears you are about 36 miles from QA towers so any decent antenna should work. There is nothing in the way unless you are on the downside of a valley slope nearby and perhaps you are not at the elevation I think. Would you by any chance have GPS coordinates? Do you have large trees in the way? Do you see higher ground when you look NNW?

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

NNW is a hill (2 blocks away) about 100 feet highwith many fir trees. I was curious if that was my only obstacle, which it appears it may be. I am about 550 elevation with that hill probably going to 650 feet altitude.

keithaxis

Seattle WA OTA

OK - that explains it. I had your location closer to the hill so 25 feet of elevation did not look significant. You are obviously further to the southeast. Yes, 100 feet of hill that close and so far from the towers makes it a "very unlikely" situation. You would need to get your antenna at least 75 up in the air. Of couse, then there are the trees...

I just saw in another post that some guy in Kentucky picked up brief signals from a station 1062 miles away(skip propagation), so I guess anything is possible!

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

quarque...

I was wondering if you can look at the topo for me too? I have made some efforts to get reception - without luck. But standing on my roof I can see sky surprisingly low. I'm actually pretty close to generationxwing - although I'm a bit higher and I think the hill above me isn't quite as high. 169th and 36th - 47:38.34N 122:06.52W

Thanks

trandy

Seattle WA OTA

trandy,

Well, I wouldn't call it awful, but perhaps "very unlikely". You would have to overcome a 150 foot rise about 1/2 mile west. Unless you can get your antenna well above the ground (50-75') you will not have a chance. Sorry.

Doing all these plots makes me wonder what OTA analog was like in Seattle (before cable). Must have been lots of people with little to no TV. I came to Seattle in '79 so it has always been cable for me until HD arrived. Luckily I am on a ridge with just barely a line to QA and CH towers. I suppose we could ask all the stations to jack up their towers another 1000 feet! That would double/triple the potential OTA audience.

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

quarque

9308 81st Street SW
Tacoma, 98498

I get 5 and 7 with little to no drop outs. 4 and 9 are somewhat problematic
11 and 13 are unusable. I know I have tress in the way, a water tower just to the left, but am I also fighting hills?

jameskollar

Seattle WA OTA

5 is odd where I am in Duvall. I get all the other locals rock solid no glitches at all... Just recently 5 is down to 77% and the odd break up... Must be atmospherics? Does 5 broadcast on a lower power? They are on the same Queen Anne Towers as 4 and 7 etc right?

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

quarque,

Hi, could you try 212th Ave and NE 10TH PL in Sammamish please?
I'm loath to buy a MyHD card and antenna until I know if there is hope! I'm hopeful as I'm reasonably high up in Sammamish, but who knows? Well, I guess you do

Many thanks,
David.

dlinsley

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by pdampier
5 is odd where I am in Duvall. I get all the other locals rock solid no glitches at all... Just recently 5 is down to 77% and the odd break up... Must be atmospherics? Does 5 broadcast on a lower power? They are on the same Queen Anne Towers as 4 and 7 etc right?
KOMO-4, KING-5 and KIRO-7 each have their own (separate) towers. All three are on Queen Anne Hill. KONG-16 also shares the KING-5 tower.

Do you get KSTW-DT over there (36-1/11-1)? In the beginning, they were focusing their limited-power digital signal toward Tacoma. So, many folks south and north of their tower are able to see their digital channel. But folks east and west would have little or no signal to work with. Perhaps they have increased their power and eliminated the directionality of their signal by now (although I have not heard so).

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Yeah 11-1 comes in fine... Its just King5 and Kong16 that seem to be affected by atmospherics just recently...

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

I occasionally get breakups on KING-DT (5) here, east of Renton. I never see them on KOMO-DT (4) or KIRO-DT (7). I don't watch a lot of KONG-DT, but so far I have not seen the dropouts there.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

I just moved to near 162nd Ave and NE 43rd in Redmond and I'm trying to pull in HDs from an antenna in my attic. I just got a Winegard PR-8800 that a friend wasn't using that I've set up, but I'm only getting channels 5 and 7 adequately. For instance, is coming in really poorly (3-6 on the signal meter out of 100). I do have a 50 foot hill about 1/4 mile away that I have to clear that has trees and houses on it, but I'm not sure that is such a big problem. I do get KIRO with an adequate signal (around 50 out of 100). I wonder if I may have too much gain? Should I try a CM4228? How can I tell if I need to use an attenuator?

If anyone wants to buy a house in Sammamish, I have one for sale with an RSDB mounted in the attic that has a line of sight to QA, and gets all stations quite well :-). If it doesn't sell soon, I may go over there and take that thing out of the attic and see if it works in the new house.

del47618

Seattle WA OTA

jameskollar,

you are fighting a 430 foot hill about 1.7 miles NNE and your elevation is about 260 feet. Looks very marginal.


dlinsley,

no major problems that I can see - go for it.

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

del47618,

you also have a 520 foot hill 2 miles west and your elevation is about 280 feet. I would call this very marginal (even "unlikely") for reliable HD.

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

quarque, thanks a lot for looking. I didn't realize that the bridle ridge hill was so high. I'm torn as to whether or not I should shell out $50 for a new preamp and give that a try, or just give up and wait for Comcast to offer HD. A nearby tree on public land is going to block my DirecTV view in about 2 years so I might as well start working on becoming a slave to the Comcast man.

del47618

Seattle WA OTA

quarque,

It looks like we will be moving (again). Could you let me know how it looks in the Fairwood area of Renton? The closest major intersection for us will be SE 184th St and SE Petrovisky Road.

Thanks,

Andy

drewba

Seattle WA OTA

Andy,

We live in Fairwood West (west of 148th Ave SE and the golf course) and I get everything from Seattle, Gold Mountain and Bellevue. It sounds like you will be a bit further east than us. Reception is good here with a $20 yagi UHF only antenna from RatShack. Mine is aimed to just barely bring in Gold Mountain (KCPQ) to the west and Tiger Mountain (I think that's where they are) to the east for PAX and ShopNBC (although I don't watch them). I have no reception of KBTS (PBS 28, DT 27) from Tacoma and don't feel I need it with KCTS available.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Thanks Dave. I actually have the same Radio Shack antenna as you, but its been gathering dust since I'm in a reception black hole right now. I don't really care about PAX or ShopNBC, so that should make it a bit easier.

Is your antenna in the attic or on the roof?

drewba

Seattle WA OTA

My UHF antenna is on the roof, about 5 feet above the peak and about 5 feet below my VHF antenna, which now days is only used if all else fails (DTV, DirecTV locals and basic cable). I tried several indoor antennae and none of them got me a usable signal, including the Silver Sensor. I think I needed to get above the small upward grade and trees between me and Seattle.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Andy,

Your line of sight looks excellent - not even close to a problem with QA or CH towers. You may have trouble with stuff in Tacoma.

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Thanks, good to hear. When you say Tacoma, are you including the stuff on Gold Mountain in Bremerton?

drewba

Seattle WA OTA

I have no trouble with Gold Mountain from here. I suspect he means KBTS, the Tacoma PBS station.

I also get KSTW fine. They are a Tacoma licensed station but their transmitter is on Capitol Hill along with KCTS and KTWB.

Let us know how well you do with reception when you get moved in.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

I can live without KTBS. My only requirements are KOMO, KING, KIRO and KCPQ. Anything else is pure gravy.

Thanks to both of you Larry and Dave for your help.

Funny how we've got all the work to do in packing and planning the move and I'm worrying about my HD reception and whether to keep cable or go back to DirecTV!

drewba

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by drewba

Funny how we've got all the work to do in packing and planning the move and I'm worrying about my HD reception and whether to keep cable or go back to DirecTV!

I should have had the foresight to worry about my OTA as well as DirecTV...*sigh*

Oh well, moving is easy, getting HD isn't.

generationxwing

Seattle WA OTA

I live in Montlake right at the base of Capital Hill (19th and Blaine if you'd like to look it up Larry)...

I have a Terk TV35 mounted on the roof and I get KIRO reasonable strong (bounces between 70-85), and the WB/Fox off the hill (22-1, 22-2), but nothing else. I'm guessing I'm out of luck to get more, but if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. Its frustrating to live so close the the antennas and still not be able to pick up the channels.

jamesmil

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by generationxwing
I should have had the foresight to worry about my OTA as well as DirecTV...*sigh*

Oh well, moving is easy, getting HD isn't.
I understand. The last time I moved (only a year ago, long story), I moved from a house with almost perfect reception of everything to one in Issaquah that could only get KCPQ. I didn't plan this move for OTA HD, but it is a nice bonus.

drewba

Seattle WA OTA

jamesmil,

Your LOS to QA hill and anything outside Seattle looks very marginal (unlikely). But to Capitol Hill you should be OK. Hope you can survive on 2 channels. You are in quite a low spot there. But hey, the arboretum is close!

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

drewba,

I think real estate agents and the MLS need to start giving an OTA rating for each house! It is starting to become important to many people.

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by quarque
drewba,

I think real estate agents and the MLS need to start giving an OTA rating for each house! It is starting to become important to many people.

Larry
I am all for that!

I am hating the fact that I'll have to deal with Comcast just to get my local HD's.....

Thanks for all the work though Larry!

generationxwing

Seattle WA OTA

jamesmil,

Have you tried the Zenith Silver Sensor Indoor Antenna? I live in West Seattle and have perfect reception of all locals with it. I tried the Terk TV-55 plus others and now believe what most on this forum say that all Terk's are bad news. Quarque has a good point about your low spot. It might be worth a try with the Silver Sensor though. You can pick one up at Sears for $39.99 and good return policy. Hope this helps!!

BackPacker

Seattle WA OTA

Could someone list the coordinates for each of the towers in Seattle and some information on reception? I have a copy of Delorme TopoUSA and can easily do profile maps from my house to the towers.

I had poor luck picking up OTA VHF when we first moved to the house using an attic antenna, so I'm not expecting much better with OTA HDTV. I wouldn't mind seeing what is possible though.

http://www.antennaweb.org obviously knows the location of the towers, but it doesn't show them on their information page.

alex

Alex Wetmore

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Wetmore
Could someone list the coordinates for each of the towers in Seattle and some information on reception? alex
Here are the transmitter sites you are looking for:

http://www.100000watts.com/tv/SEA.html

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Larry,

I'm about to move to Woodinville (About 200 yards NW of the corner of Paradise Lake Rd and Woodinville-Duvall Rd), and I wanted to know if there a chance for me to get OTA-HD reception there. AntennaWeb says yes, but I not convinced. Could you please check it out for me?

Thank you very much in advance!

-eric

ericjut

Seattle WA OTA

Eric - your line of site looks rather marginal. There is a large hill about 2 miles SW of you. If you can get your antenna on a mast on the roof you might have a chance. I would try borrowing some equipment if you can before investing in your own stuff. Or consult a professional installer. They might be able to give you a more definite answer for a price.

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Thanks Larry, I'll give it a try.

-eric

ericjut

Seattle WA OTA

Larry,

Could you please check the following address:

21802 SE 20th Street
Sammamish

This forum simply rocks!

sergepaxton

Seattle WA OTA

I'd like to see what I'm fighting here. Of the major channels, I can get 4, 5, and 13 with some dropouts. 7 is nearly impossible. This is with a CM4221 leaning against a post on the roof (I haven't bothered to put up a mast yet).

I'm at the intersection of 228th St. and NE Redmond Fall City Road in Redmond (98053).

pbishop

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by sergepaxton
Larry,

Could you please check the following address:

21802 SE 20th Street
Sammamish

This forum simply rocks!
You have no line-of-site problem whatsoever. Any reception problems would be due to local conditions like trees or multipath interference. What sort of problems are you having?

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by pbishop
I'd like to see what I'm fighting here. Of the major channels, I can get 4, 5, and 13 with some dropouts. 7 is nearly impossible. This is with a CM4221 leaning against a post on the roof (I haven't bothered to put up a mast yet).

I'm at the intersection of 228th St. and NE Redmond Fall City Road in Redmond (98053).
I am surprised you get anything. Your elevation is about 200 feet and there is a 550 foot hill about 1 mile WSW that should be blocking all signals. You must be picking up reflections somehow. How steady are your best channels?

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Please check 216th Ave S and 14th Ave S in Des Moines, WA 98198.

The VHF stuff comes in poorly, but UHF is usually OK. I have line of sight to Tacoma proper, more or less, but the SEATAC plateau might be in the way of Seattle. Verizon cellphone reception is very poor. So I'm afraid I might be in a shadow.

Thanks

Al Shing

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by quarque
I am surprised you get anything. Your elevation is about 200 feet and there is a 550 foot hill about 1 mile WSW that should be blocking all signals. You must be picking up reflections somehow. How steady are your best channels?

Larry
That's what I figured. It's that Sammamish plateau. If I aim the antenna right, I can get 4 and 5 reasonably solid. I say reasonably because there will usually be an audio dropout or two per show. The Dish 6000 never shows above 80% for either one. I only get 7 on rare days, but it never sticks around for long.

Thanks for checking. I guess I won't put too much more effort into getting OTA signals. Now I just need to cut down some trees so I can get the other satellite slots for the new HDTV packages.

pbishop

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by pbishop
That's what I figured. It's that Sammamish plateau. If I aim the antenna right, I can get 4 and 5 reasonably solid. I say reasonably because there will usually be an audio dropout or two per show. The Dish 6000 never shows above 80% for either one. I only get 7 on rare days, but it never sticks around for long.

Thanks for checking. I guess I won't put too much more effort into getting OTA signals. Now I just need to cut down some trees so I can get the other satellite slots for the new HDTV packages.
So your OTA HD choices are wait for Comcast or go with Bell ExpressVu from Canada, since they carry some of the Seattle locals.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Larry and all, hello.
I am a new owner of Samsung DTV(HLN431/SIRT165/DVDHD931)equipment. I am trying for OTA reception and would like an assesment of my location. My LOS distance is only ~10 miles due west, I am in Bremerton, 710 NW Fairwood way, corner Fairwood and Nels Nelson. I am a Ham and have a 50' tower avalible. I have a CM 3023 yagi and 7775 preamp ready to try(anyone want to climb a tower) thanks in advance
Mike

mrmike99

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by Al Shing
Please check 216th Ave S and 14th Ave S in Des Moines, WA 98198.

The VHF stuff comes in poorly, but UHF is usually OK. I have line of sight to Tacoma proper, more or less, but the SEATAC plateau might be in the way of Seattle. Verizon cellphone reception is very poor. So I'm afraid I might be in a shadow.

Thanks
Al - your elevation is about 160 feet and the hill/plateau to the north is about 400 feet at 3/4 mile from you. This makes your LOS very marginal. You may get reception but probably not steady. Your situation would be helped considerably by a tall mast on the roof of your (tall?) house.

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by mrmike99
Larry and all, hello.
I am a new owner of Samsung DTV(HLN431/SIRT165/DVDHD931)equipment. I am trying for OTA reception and would like an assesment of my location. My LOS distance is only ~10 miles due west, I am in Bremerton, 710 NW Fairwood way, corner Fairwood and Nels Nelson. I am a Ham and have a 50' tower avalible. I have a CM 3023 yagi and 7775 preamp ready to try(anyone want to climb a tower) thanks in advance
Mike
Mike - your elevation is 225 feet and you have a 280 foot hill due east about 1/3 mile. The angle from the ground over that peak just misses the tower tops on QA hill. So if you can get your antenna even 25 feet off the ground you have a good chance at clear reception. Now 50 feet would guarantee it. If you used something like a CM 4228 you could hang it part way up the mast due its flat profile. I take it the yagi is not mounted. What IS at the top of that tower?

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Larry
sounds great! well at the top of the tower is a 6 ele. 3band yagi on a 24ft boom, on top of the 10 foot mast is a 11 ele. 2m yagi. and the 3023 will fit real nice inbetween the pair at ~ 53', rotatable. now, there are many 100' fir trees close by, so I am going to add an CM 7777 just so i dont have to go back up the tower. I tryed an RS ant. at about 20' with cheap coax and could only get 13-1 & 13-2. i figured i was loosing more in the coax than i was getting from the ant. thanks i will keep you posted on my results
Mike

mrmike99

Seattle WA OTA

Larry,

Don't know if you're getting sick of this yet, but... if you aren't, I'm at:

32424 NE 136th Street
Duvall, WA 98019

Using a Silver Sensor I've been able to get a couple of Bellevue shopping channels, and some blips on a couple of other channels. Nothing good.
I've tried the Channel Master 8 bay bowtie (forgot the model #) at different locations outside, but the best results so far have been with the Silver Sensor in the house. I use different dishes and receivers to get HD, but would like to get rid of one satellite subscription if possible.

Thanks for your time!

Jeff

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

6Dishes: I'm about 1.5 miles up NE Big Rock road from the "new" Safeway and I get all the local HD channels fine (NBC sometimes glitches as its around 77% but all others are 100%) - Got an antenna, preamp and antennutor.. Antenna is mounted just about gutter height on back of house.

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

pdampier
I'm up Big Rock, north of the Stillwater church. I don't know if you're familiar with Kelly Road, but I'm west of Kelly Road, up the hill from the swamp. I have a UM 1000A for mpeg, MY HD for local, and a Digicypher HD decoder for DC2 signals.

Lots of satellite related HD, but my wife just wants the locals. She'd be happy with KOMO. Hope you guys can help me out...

Jeff

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally posted by 6Dishes
Larry,

Don't know if you're getting sick of this yet, but... if you aren't, I'm at:

32424 NE 136th Street
Duvall, WA 98019

Using a Silver Sensor I've been able to get a couple of Bellevue shopping channels, and some blips on a couple of other channels. Nothing good.
I've tried the Channel Master 8 bay bowtie (forgot the model #) at different locations outside, but the best results so far have been with the Silver Sensor in the house. I use different dishes and receivers to get HD, but would like to get rid of one satellite subscription if possible.

Thanks for your time!

Jeff
Jeff - your elevation is about 525 feet and there is a 550 foot hill SW of you about 1/8 mile. If you get your antenna high enough you should have a good shot at the QA towers. The CM 4228 is the antenna you referred to. It is the one I use and lots of others as well. It should work well if you get it at leat 20 feet or so off the ground. It is fairly directional.

And, no, I'm not sick of it yet, just deposit another 25 cents...

Larry

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

<Jeff - your elevation is about 525 feet and there is a 550 foot hill SW of you about 1/8 mile. If you get your antenna high enough you should have a good shot at the QA towers. The CM 4228 is the antenna you referred to. It is the one I use and lots of others as well. It should work well if you get it at leat 20 feet or so off the ground. It is fairly directional.

And, no, I'm not sick of it yet, just deposit another 25 cents...

Larry>


Thanks Larry,

You give me hope! I probably just haven't found the right spot yet. I have a bunch of trees around me, and haven't tried the CM again since I took some down.

Your 25 cents is in the bank, but you really should up your rates...

I appreciate the info. Thanks!

isfmd

Seattle WA OTA

anyone notice audio drop-out on miami csi last night ..7/7

isfmd

Seattle WA OTA

Had all sorts of semi-continuous audio glitches on CBS in Seattle the last few days....

pdampier

Seattle WA OTA

Just curious, does anyone have a good estimate of the number of OTA DTV users in the Seattle area? How fast/slow is it growing, or does it grow? Perhaps we can count ourselves and friends/neighbors. OK, I am one.

tuquet

Seattle WA OTA

I am one too! ... for a total of two counted so far.

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

me three

quarque

Seattle WA OTA

Larry
I wish i found this thread before I bought my Samsung t151 and Channel Master 4221. They will be arriving is the next couple of days. Can you check my location for the the changes of getting a good OTA.
I live in the Millcreek area 54th ave SE and Puget park drive. The air in that direction looks good to me, but it sounds like big hills can mess things. The big question is will I have OTA equipment for sale....Thanks Mike

Big_Dawg

Seattle WA OTA

Larry
I wish i found this thread before I bought my Samsung t151 and Channel Master 4221. They will be arriving is the next couple of days. Can you check my location for the the changes of getting a good OTA.
I live in the Millcreek area 54th ave SE and Puget park drive. MY address 14929 54th ave se.
The air in that direction looks good to me, but it sounds like big hills can mess things. The big question is will I have OTA equipment for sale....Thanks Mike

Big_Dawg

Seattle WA OTA

Larry,

I'm sick of waiting for Comcast. Can you run the following intersection?

143rd St SE & 61st Ave SE
Everett, WA
98208

This is in the Silver Firs housing development just NE of Mill Creek. I have a two story house and plan on putting an antenna about 8 ft above the roof line so figure about 35ft. above the ground. A roof mounted antenna would actually be going against CC&R for my association. I'm debating whether to just try it and hope nobody complains (would be mostly hid by trees) or using an attic antenna. Given this situation and my distance from the main towers in Seattle (don't care about the Tacoma tower or any others) what would you guys recommend for both situations? Assuming I have a chance at reception anyway. According to AntennaWeb.org I just barely clear a large tree when aiming at Queen Anne and Capitol Hill. The only other thing I see when looking that direction is sky. There are tons of trees in all other directions though.

Also very curious if anybody knows the answer to this question. When the stations cease analog broadcasts and go strictly digital will they start broadcasting digital on VHF? If so, would digital VHF be easier or more difficult to receive. I was thinking a UHF antenna on my roof would be less noticed than a huge VHF/UHF combo. If VHF would work good in the attic I'd probably be OK.

Thanks for any help.

Brent

BJM

Seattle WA OTA

I'm an OTA'er.

Malcolm_B

Seattle WA OTA

Wow Big_Dawg! You're only a few blocks away from me (1/4 mile or less). Perhaps if Larry gives you a no go and it looks good for me you've already got a buyer for your equipment.

Actually, I've often wished I was where you are at. From just eyeballing it you're probably slightly higher in elevation from me and I know your division in Silver Firs has way fewer trees than where I'm at. In either case I think we're both at a fairly high elevation. We're actually on a huge hill when you think about it as the Snohomish valley is just .5 to 1 mile NE of us. It's quite a long steep hill to drive down Seattle Hill Rd. into the valley and driving down Mill Creek Rd. to the Bothell Everett Highway is also pretty steep. The question is is there anything higher between us and the towers. That's what Larry can tell us. What do you say Larry?

Keep me posted Mike on your reception. You sticking that antenna in your attic or risking a CC&R violation? Don't know what kind of HT equipment you have but if you want to check out a 110" diagonal FP system let me know. Noticed your a new member. WELCOME!

Brent

BJM

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly From KOMO
Hello to all my AVS Forum friends. Just a quick note to let everyone know that I am no longer with Fisher Communications, or KOMO TV. Life is too short for high stress and politics. I guess this means I need to figure out how to change my name on this board huh?

Anyway while I'm trying to determine what to do next, I will be taking a few much needed days off to get some domestic projects done, (and there are a lot), plus working on a new HD-DTV related website.
Thank you very much for your new DTV Rules web site, I'll be checking on it. Assuming Fisher/KOMO hasn't imposed a harsh non-competition agreement preventing you from working for other broadcasters, you should have a great many opportunities as a consulting engineer with other broadcasters struggling to serve their audiences in the ATSC DTV era.

Thank you so much for your contributions here.

seatacboy

Seattle WA OTA

we moved and need to replace our antenna as it dropped off the back of the truck and got dinged up. it's not working so well.

would a Radio Shack 15-2160 be a good choice to replace it with? if not what would be? i'd like to try and get something we can pick up locally but am not opposed to going online if the price is right.

Also if i gave our cross streets in can someone still tell me what direction we should be pointing to try and get all channels? we seem to always have a problem getting channel 13. we're at 14th ST NE and M St NE in auburn

thanks for your help, i'm always recommending this site to others who are amazed we get HDTV OTA.

ETA after checking at www.antennaweb.org it says we need a (blue) medium directional with pre amp to get most all the channels we want 13.1 is at 283 degrees and the rest are at 326-331 degrees most are 22miles away with fox being 31. the 2160 is only a (yellow) small directional so i'm not sure that will work.

do we need UHF only antenna? or a VHF/UHF combo? i'm getting confused trying to figure this out.

ts_peach

Seattle WA OTA

Another candidate antenna is a Channel Master 4221, which can be bought at McLendon Hardware for $25 (at least in the Renton store--don't know about the Sumner store).

I live north of you, near Petrovitsky Road and 140th Ave SE (east of Valley General hospital). I started with a RS 15-2160 and used it from 1999 until this year. With it I was able to get 13.1 from Gold Mountain near Bremerton and all of the Seattle stations on Queen Anne Hill and Capitol Hill. I was not able to get channel 13 (west) and Tiger Mountain stations (PAX, etc., east) at the same time. I could swing the antenna to get one or the other. I was not concerned about PAX or the other Tiger Mountain channels.

Now with the 4221, I get almost the same results, for Bremerton and Seattle towers, solid reception. I changed antennas because the trees around us grew up and began to block signal paths to my 15-2160 mounted above my fireplace chimney. The 4221 is mounted below the eave of my house, shooting under those same trees.

So, with you being further south, the separation between Bremerton and Seattle towers would be less. Your issue for channel 13 might be the big hill to your west (I am guessing that your address is more in the valley and not on top of the hill, but I could be wrong). Dan Kurts or Quarque could tell you more about topology issues.

Good luck!

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyland
I wrote an email to the station manager yesterday asking about this. If I hear anything, I'll let you know.

clarification: KCPQ is licensed in Tacoma but the broadcast antenna is actually near Bremerton.
Cool about the email.

Even on Gold Mountain on Bremerton (I had to look that up), channel 13's transmitter is still 2.5x further away than KING's antenna on Queen Anne. I've looked at the radiation pattern for KING before, and it is peanut shaped, biased North and South with the weak spots toward the East side and to the West. I am almost in the fringe but only 9 or 10 miles from the transmitter, which just plain sucks. Hopefully the post analog shutoff signal will be more omnidirectional when (if) they re-align the radiators on their antenna.

The screwy part is that I am up on the hill on the Bellevue/Redmond border, next to Microsoft's campus but still in a weak spot. There is a hill running to West/SouthWest (Bridal Trails area), but everything else has plenty of signal, so I don't know what to make of it. The lay of the land is a be-yotch! Fortunately I am moving at the end of September, hopefully to a better reception area.

M$GUY

Seattle WA OTA

thanks Dave for the tip on the channelmaster 4221. i might have to check that out. we hooked up the 2160 and we got a lot better signal than we have for a while on 4,5,9,11, 16, and 22. 7 was weak but not flickering, no 13.

we are in the valley so the west hill might be blocking us. it does seem that if we move it to get the most channels we lose 13 and vice versa.

the current antenna is mounted on the roof of a two story house if that info is needed.

ts_peach

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ts_peach
we moved and need to replace our antenna as it dropped off the back of the truck and got dinged up. it's not working so well.

would a Radio Shack 15-2160 be a good choice to replace it with? if not what would be? i'd like to try and get something we can pick up locally but am not opposed to going online if the price is right.

Also if i gave our cross streets in can someone still tell me what direction we should be pointing to try and get all channels? we seem to always have a problem getting channel 13. we're at 14th ST NE and M St NE in auburn

thanks for your help, i'm always recommending this site to others who are amazed we get HDTV OTA.

ETA after checking at www.antennaweb.org it says we need a (blue) medium directional with pre amp to get most all the channels we want 13.1 is at 283 degrees and the rest are at 326-331 degrees most are 22miles away with fox being 31. the 2160 is only a (yellow) small directional so i'm not sure that will work.

do we need UHF only antenna? or a VHF/UHF combo? i'm getting confused trying to figure this out.

ts_peach
Ch13 is a bear down there. The hill is in the way, even though it doesn't look like it on the topo program.
Until Feb09, you need a UHF to get 13. After, you'll need a VHF. Problem is, no one makes a high gain combo antenna. You will need to use a Jointenna to couple any ch13 with your main antenna. A single antenna is tough because the rest of the Seattle channels are strong which tends to cause the tuners internal amp to turn down its gain. That makes getting the much weaker 13 really tough. If you put an ampifier on the antenna, the Seattle channels will overload it and the tuner. An amplifed ch13 coupled to the other antenna with the Jointenna is the trick.

Problem is, all this may not work because of the hill.
And even if you do get it working, in 8 months, you get to do this again with a different antenna for 13, with a different Jointenna. It might be easier then. Or not. We won't know until they actually do the changeover. No way to test anything until then.

Ain't this fun ?!?!

Dan

DanKurts

Seattle WA OTA

thanks for the information. i looked at the jointennas. to possibly get 13 to come in i would need to have a UHF for channel 13? what is the actual channel number for them? looking on the jointenna site it lists 3 models for the UHF channel range and i don't know which one i'd need.

and then in 8-9 months we'd need to have the VHF one for channel 13?

assuming the hill would cooperate, the channelmaster UHF/VHF attenna that was dinged up in the move does still recieve signal (we have been using it with limited success for awhile). so i would just need the jointenna to see if it works (which are of course nonrefundable to buy online from the first place i looked )

ts_peach

Seattle WA OTA

Hurray! Success! and we didn't need to buy anything new. it turns out that we had a bad cable at the new house running from the antenna to the outlet (it had been there before we moved).

it took a few hours and trying three or four different antenna combinations but we had a RS 15-2186 indoor/outdoor amplified antenna pick up fox so i figured we could get it on the roof. turns out our old one that got banged up in the move still worked fine. it would have been a lot easier process if we had known the cable was no good (but we had a cable to replace it onhand). in essence we were only tuning in channels through the bad cable i think. anyways everything now comes in nice and strong.

so take that big hill!

ts_peach

Seattle WA OTA

ts_peach,

Another winner.

Enjoy your HDTV watching!

Budget_HT

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ts_peach
Hurray! Success! and we didn't need to buy anything new. it turns out that we had a bad cable at the new house running from the antenna to the outlet (it had been there before we moved).

it took a few hours and trying three or four different antenna combinations but we had a RS 15-2186 indoor/outdoor amplified antenna pick up fox so i figured we could get it on the roof. turns out our old one that got banged up in the move still worked fine. it would have been a lot easier process if we had known the cable was no good (but we had a cable to replace it onhand). in essence we were only tuning in channels through the bad cable i think. anyways everything now comes in nice and strong.

so take that big hill!

ts_peach
Persistance pays for a lucky location!
Buy a Lotto & Mega ticket tomorrow.
You're the first one I've heard of getting 13 in the downtown area.
Let us know what happens next Feb when 13 switches over.
Curious, what tuner are you using?
Dan

DanKurts

Seattle WA OTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKurts
ts_peach
Curious, what tuner are you using?
Dan
i was wondering what might happen come next february, i'll let you know. the tuner we are using is an LG3510a that i picked up through this board two 1/2 years ago.

i was flipping channels all night just to see fox come in it took my dad and I 4ish hours to figure it all out and i in the end after we had figured out the bad cable and still couldn't get it to tune in, it was by chance that i realized that after he had done a rescan of availalble channels that when he tried manually turning it to 13-1 he really needed to be trying 18-1, that information was thanks to antennaweb.org . anyways the process was complicated but at least it's all working for now.

Anne-Marie

ts_peach

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