Why does it seem a lot of Competitive crowd seem to worship these units and lash out on the Colossus and Corrupter like they are unworthy replacements?
 

I simply cannot understand the competitive guys that worship reaver over Colossus ... reaver that is one of the most buggy units there is ... I mean wtf ?!?! and now that we have stalkers that blink away and reapers to jump over cliffs scarabs are useless
scourge ... not a fun unit at all ...
 

Both Reaver and Scourge take a lot of skill to use as well as fight against. They're associated with all sorts of micro tricks and tactics (cloning, sniping, hit a run, drop play, proxies, etc.), whereas Colossus and Corruptor are just generic units with little micro potential.

Reaver bugs are are somewhat predictable in competitive play, and they can be completely fixed in SC2 by improving the pathing, but at the same time making the scarab's life temporary.

Corruptors can be redesigned to allow Scourge-like type of micro and tactics, while keeping the whole corruption mechanic (much improved btw).
 

It's true. Some of the best plays I've ever seen have come from Revears. I'm still very very sad to see them go.
 

I'd be willing to bet money the Reaver makes a return in one of the expansions. The Colossus seems interesting, but not nearly as exciting as Reavers were with their unpredictability and devastating attacks.
 

And even if they won't be included, they'll be one more reason to continue playing the original StarCraft. I believe that ideally SC 2 and the original should be different enough to be equally worthwhile playing.
 

Never liked the Reaver and as a Protoss player, I only use them sometimes.
Usually I use a Goon+Zealot+DT+HT+Corsairs(DWEB).
 

Done right, the Reaver can wreak havoc in a second or two. The Colossus has to come in multiples and needs to get at least a few hits in on most any unit it's seeking to wipe out. You also have to worry more about where the shot is fired from--the Reaver didn't have this feature so much. It is a different animal.

I didn't realize Scourge were gone. They were definitely useful little guys. They will be missed.

SC2 does not equal SC1, so the gameplay will be different, but calling the Colossus a direct replacement for the Reaver is kind've a joke to me. I don't know enough about the Corrupter to comment on it.
 

Well, when you think about it, the Colossus is basically a Reaver and a shuttle combined. It's interesting how they're taking natural developments of SC1 and incorporating those more directly in SC2. I hope it will work, because at the very least, it's interesting. The Medivac is another good example of this.
 

I've been relooking at the corruptor recently (since I discovered their turret ability can target ground) and its stats actually look pretty good. It costs less than a Wraith in StarCraft 1 but does the same damage (12 + 8 vs armored, about 20 explosive damage) and costs 100 minerals 75 vespene.

It's not a replacement for the scourge, except that it's designed to kill capital ships. At least now it has some sort of anti-ground attack that can target buildings. (It's still overly dependent on what your opponent has made though.)

However, it's a replacement for the devourer, an unpopular less creative tactical air unit with a "gimmick" special ability. For its cost, the devourer seemed weak. Mathematically it seemed to work out, but due to the low RoF and AoE it was rather hard to spore a lot of enemy ships.

As for the scourge, it was a good unit. When you needed to stop a drop now you could use them to cheaply "snipe" the opposing ships. It was also a different and more creative way of stopping capital ships (compared to the rather boring Scout). And can you imagine how cool the scourge would have been with StarCraft II's superior UI? You wouldn't have scourges overly wasting damage (eg you wouldn't have three scourges throwing themselves against a Wraith).

So compare to the corruptor to the devourer instead. Personally I prefer it, and I think it's less likely to suffer the kinds of bugs which defanged Dark Swarm and the Valkyrie, but lots of people hate the turret idea. (They only deal 6 or 7 damage, that's pretty lame damage against capital ships.)

The reaver is another story. That was a cool and creative unit and, better yet, well understand. The colossus is, I think, poorly understood, and went five plus months (from BlizzCon 2008) with an attack that had superior mechanics but looked less cool than that of the original colossus and also did lame damage. Even now, the colossus cannot match the reaver's sheer damage (a reaver could instantly kill several hydralisks by doing 125 damage each to them, while the colossus needs to work in pairs or trios to do the same thing).
 

What could it be that Reavers and Scourge have that creates these exciting moments? Well first of all, what is the other high-macro impressive unit? I'd say the biggest one is the Muta.

These units have something in common - the default AI/movement/pathing of the unit is not super-effective. Mutalisks don't bunch up and do not get their max attack range. Reavers have cooldown and often funky scarab targeting. Scourge do that terrible "pause, then attack" thing which makes it hard to get hits if your opponent spends micro to evade them.

So basically a lot of the impressive micro comes from the fact that you are forced to overcome the default function of the game interface to use the units effectively. I don't know that there will be a lot of units like this in SC2 because they are doing a lot of work with the pathing etc. to make that work smoother. I think their goal is to make units like Stalker, Nighthawk, etc. that are effective without macro, but really awesome the more actions you spend.

I actually think one unit that has potential in this regard is the Phoenix - it's a standard antiair specialist, but if you micro a group of them they can do worker raids or other specialised anti-ground functions.
 

i think if they had left the reaver in the game these worshipers would have lashed out at stalkers. teleporting dark dragoons might have raped the reaver drop strategy.

all those reaver micro pro's will porbably all put their micro into stalkers now.
 

The Colossus has plenty of strategy involved... I don't get why everyone thinks it's such a simple to control unit. The unit is fragile for it's cost, but it can move up and down cliffs, that means positioning it in a spot where it can quickly get away from swarming ground forces is important. It also has a STRONG line attack, which means you have to pick your targets carefully. The AoE is larger than the Reaver's but it doesn't explode in a circle in the same way. You won't be able to just hit everything that's directly in front of you, you'll need to figure out where the most units you can hit with the line is.

Attack-moving with this unit is a sure way to see it die to overwhelming enemy fire.

The Corruptor is micro-intensive too. Picking your targets will be important because you need to figure out where you want the turrets to spawn, what units you want to take out first, etc. etc. Maybe not as do or die as the Scourge, but still definitely a strategic component to the game.
 

I agree with Aldrius. The Colossus' attack will promote careful micro. Also, to repeat my last point, the Colossus is really a combination of a reaver and a shuttle. A reaver has a powerful attack but low hit points. A shuttle is fast. So, blizzard merged them into a unit with a powerful attack, low hit points, but improved, shuttle-esque mobility (with a twist). I'm excited to see what will happen with the Colossus.

I'm also excited to see how the switch of a scourge unit from air to ground affects the game. I think air will be more prevalent, which will be interesting.
 

I dont know why a lot of people is still like "omg the reaver was for pros, colossus is for noobs". There were 2 things that the reaver was useful for: The reaver drop, and... shit THATS IT!!!!!!!... I never saw any pro game that used the reavers as a serious defense, or anything else, besides drop, attack, pick up...
 

Yeah, I've never seen a BC do anything except fly around and shoot beams... OMFG...

WTF?

So, you've never seen a unit do anything except what it was actually meant to do? Brilliant... neither have I...
 

Pros love reavers because they're extremely hard to take care of while macroing and microing at the same time. They die fast, and you have to watch 2 things, reaver's health, and shuttle's health. Also, they're used a lot in PvP matches and reavers are often a deciding factor in head on battles.

We'll just have to see how the colosss plays out (IMO it won't be as versatile as the reaver)

I don't mind removing the reaver but I wish they kept the scourge. It was unique to the Zerg in the way they sniped important aerial units.

Now they're just like any other race, oh look I got my corrupters to kill your air units, oh you have vikings to kill mine, oh he has the phoenix, yay...
 

I'm glad they're gone, I hated those. Sure the pro can micro the reavers like talking a walk in the park but most average players are not able to micro them while microing everything else around on the battlefield. As for the scourge, well it was ok but I never was a fan of suiciding units anyways.
 

i honestly cant see why someone can't understand the wow factor of units like scourge or reaver

scourge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbcGoLusxf8

reaver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKLcg3iVrM

and this his hilarious reaver stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSvZ...e=channel_page
 

I think people are forgetting the fact that the Colossus can be attacked by all attacking units in the game, which means that while you only have one health bar to watch, you have to be watching it extra carefully. You could throw a Reaver into a shuttle to escape ground attack, or drop it off to escape AtA and just lose the shuttle, but the Colossus can't escape like that. He's far more mobile, but far more vulnerable, too.
 

Whatever "wow factor" they had, Scourge screwed up the game. They're a fundamental problem with the air combat model in SC1. For a scant few minerals and gas, a player can eliminate virtually any flying unit. The only way you can possibly overcome this is by mass-Corsair.

The Banshee would be virtually useless against the Zerg if they had Scourge. As would Brood Lords, Warp Prisms, all other transports except Nydus Worms and maybe Overlords, etc.

One race having a weapon that removes an entire dimension of combat from the table is a bad thing.
 

I've seen many a Terran army stop 10 Scourge from touching an SV, what makes you think this would change in Sc2?
 

No Goliath, bio not as useful against most Zerg as it used to be, which means you might not have an abundance of Marines either.
 

Doesn't mean that a unit or two with like 40 hp couldnt be shot down in 3 seconds flat.

If you have the ability to get an SV, you have the firepower to stop Scourages. If you don't, you're pretty much doing it wrong. That being said, if you have the ability to get whatever kind of detector it is at this point, assuming it's near SV ont he tech level, you can take it out.


Besides, Gollies were hardly ever used in TvZ
 

What about MICRO and proper POSITIONING?
 

The Science Vessel is a support unit. They're not going to be sent on base raiding missions. And you'll find when they do try to go away from the army to snipe units, in come the Scourge. That's when most SV kills happen, when they get ahead of the army to Irradiate something.

The Banshee is not a support unit. It is a GtA attack unit, specifically designed for that purpose. If a Zerg can wipe them one of them out for 25/75, what good are they? What good is any air unit that isn't acting in support of a ground army? What are the chances of seeing a Terran army go for a power-air strategy, with Banshees and Vikings, with a few NightHawks and BCs acting as support?

None.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting that the Terrans would somehow be able to field a real air force against a Scourge-equipped Zerg player? How would positioning help in that regard?
 

I've seen Terran players micro Wraiths VERY well against Scourge. Go look up some pro videos, Scourge are not the end all to air units.

First off, you mean AtG. Scourge can't hit ground

Second off, you're severly overewstimating just how strong scourge are. The same thing could be said about Cattlebruisers, but I've seen players fend off waves of scourge with 12 of em.
 

Okay, but we are talking about pros correct? As in, some 5% of all players... at best?

What happens to everybody else who can't micro Vikings against Scourge on a pro level?
 

You tell me. What happened to a player who couldn't handle Scourge in the first game? They got beat by them. Once again, not that different from Sc2. The Terran have the ability to easily kill Scourge, in Sc1 and 2, if you suck against them, not much is going to change. Your units are going to die.
 

So you're being elitist than.

Just so we're clear.