Home  |  About  | Last |  Submit  |  Contact
AllQuests.com

Previous Question:  Map EditFor single player  SC Map Custom DevelopmentNext Question:  Zerg Economy Theory  StarCraft Strategy
Question Advices ( BlizzForums StarCraft Strategy )
Updated: 2009-06-04 05:20:56 (14)
Advices

I started playing sc few months ago, so I decided to join ICCup. I'd like to have some advice by pro players xD 'cause I'm a totally noob. Here some of my matches:

PvT
http://rapidshare.com/files/21746616...Cresi.rep.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/21746657...Crazy.rep.html

PvZ
http://rapidshare.com/files/21746693...Cresi.rep.html
 

Answers: Advices ( BlizzForums StarCraft Strategy )
Advices

I shall look at your replays and then give some "less than pro" advice. It will probably focus more on mechanics than your play (as poor mechanics will affect all aspects of play and should be addressed).

EDIT: Also it is easier to upload replays onto www.repdepot.net =)
 

only[blue]

Advices

oh thanks, i'll wait. XD I think my problem is how to face my opponent. Because, sometimes, I have no idea on what I can do to fight him in the better way. I think also I got over the problem "fear of expand" but during the match I can't menage the time so I don't know when It's better to build a nexus instead of another gateway...well I'm in your hand xD
 

Crazy

Advices

Quote:
I'd like to have some advice by pro players
I don't like to brag about it, but I guess it is a cold hard fact that I'm pro. Maybe I should be nice and pass on my godly knowledge to the scrubs of the next generation....
 

Sloth

Advices

To answer your post (Post #3) in a very general sense:

In terms of attacking, I would suggest you try to develop a more aggressive play style. Most beginner Protoss players seem to become very passive and it tends to remain that way, only attacking at some point without a good reason behind besides, ?I just felt that I should do something?. I do not mean you should go and attack when it is clear you will lose (e.g. 4 zealots versus 24 zerglings), but attack as often as you can when you have a good force to. It might not lead to winning games, but you will get a feel for the attack and know how much of an army you need to engage with. Don’t worry about records and stats, you want to develop a game sense first. This is your season to learn. You can get your 41-23 record after you learn. You want to be able to estimate what size army you need to break through the Terran setup or if two Templars are enough with Zealots to take on the Hydralisks.

When you become aggressive you’ll learn along the way what signs tell you it is good to attack on top of basic ideas of attack, such as flanking, proper counter units, greater numbers. Once you learn how to be aggressive and attack, you’ll learn when you can’t be too aggressive and attack. Versus being always passive, you’ll never learn when or how to attack. You can also be aggressive in other ways, such as aggressive expanding while attacking or defending well. Aggressive scouting and exploitation of your opponent’s weaknesses. All of these things you cannot learn if you sit in your base.

Along with attacking there is how to respond to your opponent and knowing basic lines of play (as how can one be aggressive if one does not know how to play). It seems you have some of the foundations for PvT. Your PvZ seems shaky.

In terms of expanding, there are some very general rules for each match-up. For PvT you should always be at least 1 base ahead, PvZ 1 base behind, PvP is a bit different. Staind taught me to be more aggressive in expanding in PvT, especially if Terran expands quickly as ?Terran can’t do anything about my expanding?. If Terran expands early, Protoss should expand immediately, and then expand again a short time thereafter. For PvZ make sure you are able to defend your expansions and Photon Cannons are usually a good idea.

Generally you can support about 4 Gateways for every fully mining base you have.

Try to improve your game in stages.

Get the first 5 minutes of your games down well. Opening splits, build orders, scouting around. Focus on those first 5 minutes. After that just play and play aggressive. Once you can open well every time, move onto minutes 6 to 11 focusing on middle-game play, responding to your opponent, and attacking, controlling the game. Then minutes 12 to 17, 18 to 23, etc.
 

only[blue]

Advices

*note: I am unsure of what you do or do not know beyond what I can assay, so please excuse any such things mentioned that are trivial to you. Also by no means are these ?pro tips?.

gg39vsCresi.rep

Mechanics

1. Keep practicing your Probe splits in the beginning =). Also remember you can select your Nexus (and therefore build your 5th Probe) faster on Iccup than on B.net.

2. For PvZ it is desirable to build your first Pylon so that you can build your first Gateway adjacent to the Pylon and near the ramp. This is in case Zerg decides to cheese with a very fast Spawning Pool for which your finishing Zealot will be able to block the ramp with Probes. (If you are fast-expanding, or doing the Bisu or Stork Build for PvZ, then obviously the first Pylon should be smartly placed in the natural or near the Nexus respectively). Also if you decided to rush/pressure with Zealots, the walking distance will be shorter (very important).

3. Build your Pylons in a timely manner so you do not get caught in Psi. To give you a perspective, Pylons build in 20 seconds, a Nexus in 80 s, Probes in 13 s, Zealots, Forges and Corsairs in about 27 s, and Dragoons, High Templars, Dark Templars, and Photon Cannons in about 33 s. Remember that most Protoss units cost 2 Psi and Pylons give 8 Psi. When expanding with a Nexus, after building the next 2 Pylons, skip the 3rd Pylon as the Nexus will finish warping in and provide you with nine Psi.

Other timings are +ground attack takes about 177 seconds with the Zealot leg upgrade taking half that time, about 89 seconds. Psi Storm research takes the same time as a Nexus to finish warping, 80 s.

4. Use hotkeys!! (I will follow up the posts with a thorough explanation)

5. Place Gateways in a manner so that it is easy to macro them. There is more I can add to this about building placement (such as ?surrounding’ your Templar Archives), but I will not for now.

6. Macro, macro, macro!!

7. Micro, micro, micro!!

8. Scout, scout, scout!!

9. The amount of Probes you had for each mining base was pretty good. A general formula I use is 2 x (the number of mineral patches closest to the Nexus) + 3 x (the number of mineral patches a bit further from the Nexus + (the number of mineral patches) / 2 rounded down.


Play

1. For 2-Gateway openings you are in fact threatening to pressure with Zealots. You can go hardcore Zealot rush with very fast Gateways and Probe production cuts to regular 10/12 Gateway builds with slight pressure and then tech. 2-Gateway builds are usually not done too often nowadays because so much depends on if your pressuring with Zealots is successful or not. The distances between mains on modern maps do not encourage Zealot rushes either, but that does not mean they are not entire unviable or that a timed push of Zealots versus certain builds will not yield good results.

If one is indeed rushing with Zealots there are two options: Fast Gateways at 9/9 or 9/10 or 9/11 Psi with or without Probe cuts or standard 10/12 Gateways. The faster Gateway builds offer a lot more pressure to more openings Zerg can do versus the 10/12 Gateway builds, but the economy will take a hit. Proxying offers even more pressure at the cost of leaving you very vulnerable to attack (this is when a strong offense is your best defense and is essentially an all-in opening). In either case, having your scouting Probe survive and have its hit points are paramount (as is sending in other Probes with the attack). Rushes are designed to sacrifice economy to be able to damage Zerg. If you are unable to do enough damage, you will be behind.

If you are fast Gating, you should send your first Zealot straight out of the Gateway to Zerg. Largely, depending on distance, and how fast Zerg builds a Spawning Pool and/or if Zerg scouts your rush attempt, you might consider sending another Probe or two with your initial Zealot to meet your scouting Probe, they will become crucial to the success of your attack. Hotkeying is very important here as much of your focus will have to be on microing your units and not losing Zealots or getting surrounded AND keeping Zealot production/building Pylons/etc. going.

In the meantime, with your scouting Probe try to disrupt mining, and block any attempts to put down the Spawning Pool (not always possible), another Hatchery, or a Creep Colony (to become a Sunken Colony). Any means of disrupting and slowing Zerg down at this point only adds to your rush.

If Zerg has put down a 7pool you should defend the rush first at your ramp. Your first Zealot will be well done before the Zerglings reach your ramp, however; you will need at least 2 Probes to block with your Zealot. To block properly, position the Zealot in the center of the ramp where it can block just by itself and the move the Probes to either side and adjacent to the Zealot. Select the entire group and press Hold. By placing the Zealot at that specific point is paramount. A bit behind and the Zerglings will be able to attack the Probes and get through. A bit forward and the Zerglings will be able to surround your Zealot in greater number. If your scouting Probe finds that Zerg is building more Zerglings, you might want to send in a 3rd Probe to block directly behind the first Zealot until your second set of Zealots manage to finish. Once you defend the rush and have about 5 Zealots to pressure with, head out when you have confidence Zerg will not run up your ramp. You scouting Probe should hopefully be still alive to see if Zerg is still pumping Zerglings or has switched to something else to time your attack.

If Zerg has broken through, the two main targets are (1) your Probes (2) solitary Zealots and (3) the Pylon powering your Gateways. You should of managed to kill a good number of Zerglings before they broke through. You should have 2 Zealots in the process of production. If the Zerglings are attacking your Pylon send some Probes (and your Zealot if the Zerglings managed to slip through) to distract (not kill, unless you see a Zergling at low health), but hit and run tactics until your second set of Zealots finish. Consider making your next Pylon to help power those two Gateways. Make sure you use at least 1 Zealot to hold the ramp and the remaining Zealots with Probes to finish off the Zerglings. Because of the fast pool the Zerglings will not have their speed upgrade and you can use your Probes to inhibit the Zerglings movements, while they and the Zealot close upon them.

If the Zerglings go for your Probe line, make sure to send targeted Probes toward the center mineral patches and try to catch the Zerglings in the middle to stack and then attack the Zerglings. You can also utilize the Vespene geyser to move your Probes, but make sure not to use the ?stack bug’ where stacked units remain stacked even while attacking. Because the Probes will start to spread out as you attack with them, pushing around the Zerglings, you will be able to damage and kill them while minimizing losses. Once you have a Zealot or two engage them or place them at the ends of your mineral line. The key in this situation is to both take care of the Zerglings as quickly as possible and keeping the ramp blocked to prevent more Zerglings from coming in. Be careful, even if you are able to secure the mineral line by placing a Zealot on either end, the Zerglings can switch targets to the Pylon or attack the Zealots blocking the ramp from both sides combined with incoming Zerglings.

The real danger comes when you have slow Zealots trying to deal with speed Zerglings in your base for which you will need a Dragoon or two with the Zealots to chase and kill the Zerglings, or a Photon Cannon in the middle of your mineral line.

9pool or ovie/pool (i.e. Pool before hatchery) Zerg will send the initial 6 Zerglings towards your base. As the Zealot and Probe meet up with the group of Zerglings, attack when possible while retreating until your second set of Zealots catch up. Do not let your Zealot become surrounded and die. Use any terrain along the way: doodads, cliffs to prevent a complete surrounding of the Zealot. You do not also have to retreat directly back and can take detours. If Zerg decides to skip your Zealots and go directly to your base, continue to Zerg’s base while preparing to block your ramp with your next set of Zealots complete. With Zerglings going to your base there are less forces to deal with at Zerg’s own base while you will have Zealots to help defend at home.

When engaging Zerglings the thing is to not become surrounded, that is to have the Zerglings always funnel into a smaller front of attack. Use mineral patches, Hatcheries, or even Zerg Eggs to keep the ratio of Zerglings engaging Zealots as close to 1:1 as possible. Micro and pull out damaged Zealots and micro around to force the Zerglings to bunch up and stumble around each other.

While Pool before Hatchery openings allows for faster Zerglings to deal with Zealots, if you manage to kill Zerglings with minimal losses it spells doom for Zerg. For Hatchery before Pool openings the Zealot will manage to harass the Drones, however; this usually causes Zerg to put down multiple Sunkens and later Zerg can pump Zerglings from two hatcheries to eventually beat back the rush. If Zerg starts to put up Sunkens at one hatchery and you are not able to deal with them, begin your attack on the other hatchery.

If Zerg is putting down a Creep Colony, try to surround the Drone and kill it. If it manages to start building, keep attacking the Creep Colony to force the Zerglings to engage you. Engage the Zerglings and when they retreat, return to attacking the Creep Colony. If Zerg attempts to put down multiple Creep Colonies, you will not be able to prevent Sunkens from morphing. Your goal is to be as cost effective as possible. Do not lose 4 Zealots to kill 4 drones and get a Sunken down to 100 HP.

When your Zealots die, use the freed up Psi to build a Probe or two instead of adding another Pylon if you are able.

With 10/12 Zealot pressure builds, it is usually safer and more effective to push out once you have 5 Zealots rather than sending the first Zealot to pressure unless it is a Hatchery then Pool opening for Zerg. Although remember to slightly cut Probes to start gas and tech.

You need to start your tech before you feel like your Zealot pressure is fading out. If Zerg is able to hold their ramp, position your Zealots just below that ramp in an arc. It usually is not a good idea to try and push up the ramp with your Zealots as they will be coming from a small to larger opening. You should have already begun teching at this point.

The reason why teching is important is that Zerg can tech Hydralisks and Mutalisks. Mutalisks to harass your Zealots and your Probes. Zerg’s Hydralisks will force your slow Zealots back. Make sure to scout well to see if you need to Cannon up for a Hydralisk all-in while you race to templar tech, or Cannoned Nexus + Corsair for Mutalisk harrassmsnet, etc.

2. 2-Gateway Zealot rush builds have largely lost their popularity and effectualness on higher levels of play and modern maps, but are still very viable in catching your opponent off guard. It should be something in your repertoire of PvZ builds, but also learn FE builds and maybe 1-Gateway, Tech builds. The Zealot rush depends largely on the distance between bases, how early Zerg sees it coming, and how Zerg reacts to it. If you are largely ineffectual with your rush, the delayed tech will allow Zerg to control the game and if Zerg plays well, it will be difficult to come back resulting a loss in the 13th minute.

3. One thing to realize about Zerg is that they can either power, massing Drones + expansions to get a massive economy or mass, massing a fighting force; and they can switch in an instant. Typically, if Zerg is playing right, their army will always outnumber yours (which is why Psi Storm is such the great equalizer, or rather Protoss tech). Basically, you need to fight Zerg with Protoss tech. Zealots + High Templar + Archons, Dragoons + Reavers w/ Shuttles + Corsairs. Gas units are what will equalize your army with Zerg’s. Be careful of early game massing (all-in Hydralisk break), where you might have to build more Photon Cannons and even use Probes to defend. Remember even though Zerg’s army is larger at that point, Zerg is sacrificing Drones to do so that early, and with your natural you should be able to macro out an army to push out, setup your 3rd while engaging Zerg to reduce their army with minimal losses.

4. Upgrading is important in PvZ, specifically +ground attack. Start early and keep up with the upgrades.


(More later when I find time. Specifically, your PvT games and some mechanics notes)
 

only[blue]

Advices

A ?near-verbatim? of how a typical game plays out for me in terms of mechanics for the early game. I summarize my hotkey setup near the end.

Hypothetical game: P8vZ3 on Python 1.3

Game room:

-- Look at opponent’s race, look at map, consider openings and standard play on the map as I spam 1233r1233r1233r...

Countdown:

-- glgl, gg, hf, 1a2a3a4a5a, 1a, 2a, 3a, 4a, 5a

OBS version-only (briefing screen):

-- Take a breath, getting ready.

Game start:

-- left-click Nexus, <P> & visually confirm location of nearest mineral patch, box-select Probes x4 (or <CTRL> + click a Probe), right-click nearest mineral patch, split Probes to optimum mineral patches.

-- Hotkey Nexus to 1, 0, 2, 9, 3, 8, 4, 7, 5, 6 with both hands, regard starting location and first Pylon placement.

-- <Shift> + <Tab> to set yellow & red colors on minimap. Spam: 1233r, left-click near mineral patches, box-select a Probe, 2 Probes, 3 Probes, 4 Probes, 1233r, left-click near mineral patches, box-select a Probe, 2 Probes, 3 Probes, 4 Probes, ... look at minimap.

-- Select finished 5th Probe, right-click mineral patch.

-- (A long time ago, I used to be quite ?cute? in bringing Probes to mine, as usually when the 5th Probe finishes, at least one Probe is on a return with a mineral patch. Because that returning Probe will have to accelerate back around, I send the recently finished 5th Probe already accelerating, to the mineral patch ?owned? by the returning Probe and send the returning Probe to the next untouched mineral patch. I do this partially sometimes in the beginning, but has largely fell out of my opening repertoire.)

-- Spam, look at minimap.

-- Build 6th Probe, queue 7th Probe

-- Select finished 6th Probe, right-click mineral patch.

-- Spam, look at minimap.

-- Queue 8th Probe, at 64 minerals, send a Probe out towards natural, re-hotkey <5> to that Probe (scouting), 11, 55, 11, 55 (to check hotkey is correctly applied).

-- Spam.

-- Select finished 7th Probe, right-click mineral patch, re-hotkey <6> to it (this is my ?quick warping? Probe), 55, 66, 55, 66, look at minimap.

-- 55, BP (build Pylon), <Shift> + right-click 12 o’clock main on mini-map, re-hotkey <1> to natural Pylon, location hotkey to <F2> and <F3> look at minimap.

-- Select finished 8th Probe, move it to the Southeast corner of my main to check for Overlord, visually check & box select area--no Overlord (no redirect of scouting Probe), queue 9th Probe, right-click mineral patch, re-hotkey <6> to it, 11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66, look at minimap.

-- Spam + 55, 11, 33, 66, 5656, etc. (constantly doing 1233r, left-click & 55 to check scouting Probe), look at minimap.

-- Select finished 9th Probe, right-click to mineral patch, re-hotkey <6> to it.

-- Queue 10th Probe & 11th Probe, at 10/17 Psi with 104 minerals send Probe<6> out to natural, 66, right-click Vespene geyser, 11, 6 + right-click, look at minimap.

-- Select 10th Probe to mine, spam.

-- Scouting Probe sees no creep at 12 o’clock, moves immediately to 3 o’clock.

-- 66, BF (build Forge), <Shift> + right-click natural mineral patch closest to ramp.

-- Queue 12th Probe, select finished 11th Probe to mine, look at minimap, scouting Probe sees Overlord going towards 8 o’clock (means Zerg is at 3 o’clock, scouted 12 first and is now heading toward 8, o’clock. Maybe scouting Drone at this point). Notes the cross positions and adjusts build/strategy.

-- Queue 13th Probe, select finished 12th Probe, right-click to mineral patch.

-- 66, warping Probe has finished returning the mineral and is on its way back to the mineral patch at the natural, 1, BC (warp Photon Cannon), left-click, queue 14th Probe.

-- Scouting Probe enters Zerg’s main, sees ovie/pool build + gas (I am thinking maybe speed ling break early on, faster lair, etc.)

-- 66, BC, left-click, warp in a second Photon Cannon, <Shift> + right-click mineral patch at natural.

-- Micro scouting Probe to harass Zerg in various ways possible (attack Drones, mine minerals, block hatchery), while continually jumping back and forth between my base and scouting Probe to keep it always moving.

-- Building Probes, 66, warping Probe coming into base, build a Pylon inside main, return mineral, right-click on a main mineral patch.


//--------


-- From here its just following the build order, adding Cannons and/or moving Probes out to the natural if Zerg is going to keep the speed ling mass going, checking if Zerg takes Drones off gas, does Zerg make only 2 lings, does ling speed kick-in while I am scouting Zerg, etc.).

-- To summarize the hotkeys so far I (a) hotkey numbers 0-9 to my Nexus in the beginning and gradually re-hotkey them as the game progresses. I do this in case I need to quickly get back to my Nexus, I'll have many options. (b) I hotkey my scouting Probe to <5> and (c) hotkey my first Pylon to <1>, constantly checking on my base and scouting Probe. (d) I then hotkey my ?outer most? Probe to <6> and use that Probe to warp in buildings (unless its mining then I send another Probe out, hotkey <6> to that, then re-hotkey my original warping Probe back to <6>).

-- Later I use <1> and <2> for my first two Gateways, <4>, <5>, <6> for my first units (my scouting Probe will be dead long before I need the <5> hotkey).

-- <0> becomes the hotkey for my main base and <9> is for the natural base. <8> for my 3rd expansion.

-- As my macro continues, I utilize location-hotkeys for my Gateways and rally-points (<F2> and <F4> for Gateway locations, <F3> for the rally-point), and then use #s <1> to <6> for units: <1> for Zealots & Archons, <2> Zealots & Archons, <3> Corsairs, <4> High Templar (although I usually add a Zealot or two for this group), etc.. These hotkeys will shift and change depending on how my forces change. <7> I usually use for Observers and <6> for Shuttles (since it’s close to <U>).

Some time tomorrow I will detail various actions/commands/shortcuts in Starcraft and some mechanics more specific to each match-up. (Give me time next week to go through your PvT. Ironically my time on the weekends is moot, and with finals coming up, I’ll try to get to them when I can as soon as I can.)
 

only[blue]

Advices

Thanks, this helps a lot. I tried to do some PvZ. My problems of going FE are: first of all the timing, the opponent who go fast hydra and I can't fight with him because I don't have at least one ht with storm. How can I do?

My second question is about PvP. It's better going 2gate zealots and then goons or going fast goon? Or trying another bo?
 

Crazy

Advices

And to wonder is how or if any of this changes for SC2.
 

TwoTimer

Advices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy
Thanks, this helps a lot. I tried to do some PvZ. My problems of going FE are: first of all the timing, the opponent who go fast hydra and I can't fight with him because I don't have at least one ht with storm. How can I do?

My second question is about PvP. It's better going 2gate zealots and then goons or going fast goon? Or trying another bo?
Depends on the kind of fast hydra. If it's a really fast hydra rush from 2hatch then you have to keep in mind it's pretty much an all-in build. So you have to survive with zeal/cannon/probe, using your units to buy time for cannons to warp. Don't worry if you have to stop making probes/tech to make cannons, if you live you should win quite easily. The problem is usually scouting it, you really have to keep that first probe alive as long as possible.

If it's a later, stronger hydra attack, then either you cleared his overlords with your corsair and have a dt for protection. Or if you just went straight for storm it should be done by the time he has enough to attack your cannons.

In PvP it depends on the map. On Blue Storm almost everyone does 2gate into fast nexus. 2gate into goons is not very common since 1gate goon builds will have more goons and with micro goons>>>zeals. And on a ramped map it's not hard to hold off 2gate.

But it's not completely unplayable, not everyone has brilliant micro so if you can do damage with your 2gate then you can just continue into goons, but it is an inferior build in general.

If you're going fast goons, keep in mind it's dangerous to do the PvT build where you don't make any zeals at all. It will be really hard to fight a 2gate and manner pylons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTimer
And to wonder is how or if any of this changes for SC2.
I suppose It'd be a pretty crap game if it played exactly like a 10-year old one.

Anyway I'm sure playing BW will teach you the standard RTS theory that will help in any other game.
 

Nytefish

Advices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nytefish
I suppose It'd be a pretty crap game if it played exactly like a 10-year old one.

Anyway I'm sure playing BW will teach you the standard RTS theory that will help in any other game.
Of course it would, the standard theory wouldn't be the problem, I guess we all gonna have to learn a new button-pushing habit, lol (but maybe that won't be the case with the customizable hotkeys).
 

TwoTimer

Advices

Just a quick post.

Basic PvZ FE Beginnings.

Pylon at natural (Placement is to usually place the Forge next to it to partially/completely block Zergling movement to your ramp and to make it longer, and such that to place Photon Cannons to cover your ramp & your natural’s mineral line. Your Gateways also aids to block your ramp, just don't block yourself in). Forge comes in around 10 or 11 Psi. If Zerg goes Hatchery before Pool, Nexus faster (cut Probes to get your Nexus down around 14 Psi). If Zerg goes Pool before Hatchery, such as 9 Pool, then Cannon twice around 14 Psi, use Probes to block/delay if you have to. If you see Zerglings when your Probe scouts Zerg i.e. Zerg 5 or 7 Pooled, cut Probes if you have to in order to get a Pylon down right at your Nexus, warp in 2 or 3 Cannons immediately after the Pylon finishes, and send 2-3 Probes to block ramp to buy time for your warping Cannons. If you already Cannoned at your Natural, send a lot of Probes to form a block and maybe 1 Cannon in your main base mineral line.

Make sure you Gate as soon as you can and put up an Assimilator shortly thereafter. Core goes up and play continues from here. A few replays of PvZ where P fast expands should give you a sense of play.

As Nytefish has said, if Zerg is foregoing Drones to mass Hydra for an “all-in” break, keep building Cannons, use a Probe + Zealot army to keep Hydras from moving in and sniping warping Cannons. Here is an example from Youtube (although not a true Hydra break, it gives you a sense of how to respond to such “all-in” attacks): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-2e32yN9OY&fmt=18 (note how P's Overlord hunting pays off as the game progresses)

Basic PvZ FE builds

Nexus before Forge - Basically when Zerg goes 12 Hatchery or if main distances are huge like Andromeda. Note the later Zealot and faster gas. If need be make the Zealot earlier and the 2nd Gas later. It’s important you don’t follow this strictly if you see your opponent doing something dangerous to your build (like early speed ling break, or hydra break). There are instances throughout this build where you have to slightly cut Probes to get things down. This is of importance in order to get your tech down and Stargate up to scout Zerg with your first Corsair.

7/9 {send Probe to natural (This is after you have queued your 8th Probe and the
building 7th Probe is around 80% done.)
8/9 Pylon {in your natural, scout
13/17 {send Probe to natural
14/17 Nexus (cut Probes to get this Nexus down
15/17 Forge
16/17 Pylon
17/17 Photon Cannon (now usually if it is a large map Zerg will just Hatchery before
Pool anyways, so this might be the only Photon Cannon you need in the
beginning)
18/25 Gateway
19/25 Assimilator {send 5 Probes to your natural to start mining (Assimilator is at your
natural of course.)
23/34 Cybernectics Core {Assimilator finishes
25/34 Assimilator
27/34 Pylon
Zealot
31/34 Stargate

-- From here you can progress to a Stargate, maybe make 1 Dragoon to kill off any Overlord in your main. Typically on large maps PvZ is more Sair + Reavers w/ Shuttle to have mobility to match Zerg. However, Sair + Reaver takes a lot of management and if you are not confident in your micro and multitasking ability, stick to basic Zealot + Archon + High Templar, with maybe Observers, Dragoons (for Lurkers), DTs. It’ll suit situations just fine. Goon/Sair/Reaver w/ Shuttle is also another option once your graduate from that.

Forge before Nexus - Zerg Pools first and/or smaller maps

7/9 {send Probe to natural (8th Probe is queued and minerals are around 50 to 64.)
8/9 Pylon {at natural, scout
11/17 Forge
14/17 Photon Cannon
15/17 Photon Cannon
Pylon {at main
18/25 Nexus (you will have to slightly cut Probes to do this
Gateway
19/25 Assimilator {at main
21/25 Pylon
22/25 Zealot
23/25 Cybernetics Core
26/33 Zealot

-- You can either try for an early +1 attack with Zealots & Archons to have a timing push or maybe Stargate at 31/42 after a 2nd Gas among other things.

-- Builds tend to diverge wildly at this point depending on what is scouted.

//------

Here’s an example of a 1Gate into 2Gate Dragoon/Reaver build. Need a ramped main with average main distances (like Othello). Just 2 Zealots to block the ramp with Dragoons on the way into Observer and Reavers + Shuttle. The 2 Zealots might be dangerous if you see a hardcore Zealot 2 gateway (2 Gateways, no gas) you might want to make a Shield Battery to hold your ramp or add a 2nd Gateway and make a few more Zealots.

Try to build your Gateways in the beginning far away enough from the ramp, so that in case you manage to block the scouting Probe, it cannot see how many Gateways you have up. Analogous to this, is to not put all of your units right at your ramp (unless it is being attacked), because the unit makeup can give away the build.

PvP

1 Gateway into Dragoon/Reaver

8/9 Pylon
10/17 Gateway {scout
12/17 Assimilator
14/17 Zealot
Pylon {Assimilator finishes
18/25 Cybernetics Core
19/25 Zealot
22/25 Pylon
23/25 Dragoon
26/33 Singularity Charge upgrade
27/33 Pylon
Dragoon
30/41 Robotics Facility
Gateway
Dragoon
Pylon
Dragoon x2
Shuttle
Observatory
Robotics Support Bay {Singularity Charge finishes
Dragoon x2
Observer
Pylon
Dragoon x2
Reaver
Pylon

-- If you want to go Shuttle Speed, remember that it takes about 1.5 Reaver building time for Shuttle Speed to complete (thus if you are going Shuttle + 2 Reavers, you should start Shuttle Speed when your 1st Reaver is at 50% completion--this way Shuttle Speed will kick in as your are already moving out).

-- As Nytefish also pointed out, some maps have different standards of play. Don’t count out 2 Gateway Zealot into Dragoons though as some maps force such openings, but those kinds of maps are uncommon these days. Just make sure you keep your scouting Probe alive to see if your Protoss opponent is continually pumping Zealots or starting Dragoon tech (technically you “cannot” lose your scouting Probe until the first Dragoon comes out). You might want to add your 2nd Gateway if you see a 10 and 12 Gateway from your opponent to match Zealot count after your Assimilator.

-- Robotics takes about 53 seconds to build, Shuttle 40 s, Shuttle Speed upgrade takes 111 s, Reaver 47 s, Shuttle



Hopefully there are no errors this time >.>


EDIT: Just to note, FE builds tend to propel you into the middle-game very quickly.
 

only[blue]

Advices

I still find the FE opening pretty complicated despite playing and watching it a lot.

For example against a zerg who only makes 2 lings you can get away with no cannons at all and against overpool (no speed) the strongest variation is along the lines of:

11 forge
13 cannon
13 nexus

Then depending on if he just made 6 lings or not you make another cannon or start gate/gas etc.

Also I often see builds that purposely get stuck on supply, i.e. 2nd pylon is much later, waiting on your nexus to give you supply. The advantage is that you can get gate/gas etc. up faster, but you won't be able to warp a cannon in your main if they manage a run-by and your econ will be a bit worse. I think if you're forced to rush corsair it's the better option.
 

Nytefish

Advices

Just curious Crazy, but... do you have a light (drawing) hand using a heavy mouse with medium sensitivity and when you box-select do you go from the upper right-hand corner to the lower left-hand corner?
 

only[blue]

Advices

(UNFINISHED, will add to it at a later time.)

*note: I am unsure of what you do or do not know beyond what I can assay, so please excuse any such things mentioned that are trivial to you. Also by no means are these ?pro tips?.

.Table of Contents.

mechanics.general{

_building and unit hotkeys
intro

rallying
mine rally
unit rally
rally points
multi-rally

warping
research
cancelling

mining
mine mode

moving
following
attacking
attack move
stopping
holding
patrolling
waypoints
queuing

_
mechanics.PvZ{
mechanics.PvT{
mechanics.PvP{

mechanics.general{

Using various shortcuts available in Starcraft will enable you to more effectively manage your forces and bases by dividing tasks between the keyboard and mouse, and minimizing necessary mouse movements thus enabling more tasks to be performed and performed in a shorter time. In other words, the more you utilize these shortcuts the shorter the time is needed to perform tasks and thusly the more tasks you can do within a specific interval of time. However, with that said, there must be an accompanying proficiency with the keyboard and mouse, and one can only focus on one thing at any given moment.

_building and unit hotkeys

intro Most buildings and every unit have some sort of command hotkey associated with them from training units, rallying units, or researching abilities in buildings to attacking, holding position, etc. for units.

rallying Any building that can train a unit such as a Nexus, Gateway, or Stargate can be rallied i.e. units that finish training can be automatically told to move toward a certain location, by selecting the desired building and either (1) right-clicking the desired rally-point or (2) pressing <R> and then left-clicking the desired rally-point. Finished units moving automatically from the building to the rally-point move according to as if they were given the ?move’ command and ignore any enemies or enemy fire until they reach their destination unless commanded otherwise before then.

mine rally Rallying Probes from the Nexus to the mineral line minimizes the time it takes the Probe to get to mining, but the Probe must still be command to mine (usually by selecting the Probe and right-clicking on a mineral patch) even if one directly rallies onto a mineral patch.

unit rally Rallying units also puts them in a group to be easily selected at one predetermined location. One can even rally units to a building causing ground units to surround the building (this can also be done with enemy buildings, mineral patches, and Vespene geysers. Rallying directly onto any unit will cause the rally-point to reset to the building itself. Rallying onto impassable terrain (such as water), will cause the units to get as close as possible to that point on passable terrain. On some maps like Blue Storm, certain rally-points might cause pathing problems such as Dragoon rallied onto the direct center of the map or the opposing player’s base.

rally points In the opening, the first rally-points are of the Nexus and Probes to mine. The early game sees Gateways rallied to the ramp to block or towards the enemy’s base if pressuring with a rush-opening. After one expands, the rally-points move to the natural choke. Mid- and end-game might see rally-points further from the natural to possibly the mineral-only expansion or the center and maybe two or more rally locations (if say one has a Gateway group in the main base and another Gateway group at another main having two rally-points to potentially flank).

multi-rally One method of rallying multiple buildings in quick succession is by utilizing location hotkeys (see further below) by location hotkey of a group of Gateways and location hotkey of the desired rally-point. For example, let us say one location hotkeys one’s Gateway group to <F2> and the desired rally-point is the location hotkey <F3>. Then to rapidly rally-point all the Gateways one would do, in sequence: <F2>, select the first Gateway, <F3>, right-click on the rally-point, <F2>, select the second Gateway, <F3>, right-click on the rally-point, <F2>, select the third Gateway, <F3>, right-click on the rally-point, and so forth until the nth-Gateway. With practice, a Gateway-grouping can be rallied in less than a second or two.



warping All buildings have their own associated warping hotkey (not necessarily unique) or hotkey sequence (which is unique) for warping with a Probe unit. To warp with a Probe unit select the Probe and press either <B> which will enable the building of ?basic level’ buildings such as a Nexus, Pylon, or Gateway or <V> which will enable the building of ?advanced level’ buildings such as a Stargate, Citadel of Adun, or Robotics Bay (provided all prerequisite buildings have warped in). For example, to build a Pylon one can select a Probe, press <B>, <P> and then left-click to place the Pylon. This is, as opposed to selecting the Probe, then selecting ?Build’ with the mouse and then selecting ?Pylon’ and finally placing the Pylon with the mouse, which is fundamentally a slower process. All warping hotkeys are designated with a yellow character within the building’s name whenever you mouse over them in the command box interface.

research All research spells also have their own hotkey when you select their respective building e.g. for the Citadel of Adun, the Leg Enhancement upgrade has a hotkey of <L>.

cancelling To cancel researching, warping of a building, or training of a unit, press <ESC> while selecting the respective building. When you have several units queued for training in a building, pressing <ESC> will cancel the most recently queued unit. When one cancels a unit training or research in progress it resets the timer. One can selectively un-queue units by left-clicking them.

mining While it is possible to play Starcraft without right-clicking, it is a bit dubious to use the hotkey, <G> to mine rather than just right-clicking on the mineral patch (the same going for moving units with the hotkey <M>). Your scouting Probe can potentially deny mining from a mineral patch by microing a Probe to mine the enemy’s mineral patch when their mining unit tries to mine (as only one unit can mine one mineral patch at a time) and then stopping by pressing <S> before a mineral is actually mined, followed immediately by mining again. Repeating this process will deny mining indefinitely, but requires much attention.

mine mode When a Probe is commanded to mine (either minerals or Vespene geyser or an Assimilator built on top of the Vespene geyser) it becomes ghost-like (not the Terran unit) becoming able to pass through all units. Other units or Probes not in ?mining mode’ cannot go through ?mining’ Probes without being hampered. This can be useful in: (1) picking out a Probe from the mineral line to go warp in a Pylon or other building by selecting a Probe, right-clicking on the Vespene geyser, then once it clears the mining Probes, move to build the Pylon or (2) maynarding Probes from one mining base to another mining base (3) stacking Probes and then stopping or attacking with them to cause them to separate(!), pushing any enemy units around making them largely unable to attack (do not use the ?bug’ to keep units stacked even while attacking as this is illegal in most leagues) (4) using queued shift-clicking of a mineral patch with your scouting probe from the enemy’s main to the enemy’s natural and back to the enemy’s main (slightly useful in PvZ when you need to check Zerg’s natural and then come back to Zerg’s main e.g. the scouting Probe enters the Zerg’s main base and approaches the hatchery to see if Zerg is morphing a Spawning Pool. In seeing no Spawning Pool within the normal timings it is decided to check the natural for an expansion. However, as one checks the natural, Zerg blocks off the ramp. Normally the Probe would not be able to get passed the block, but if one managed to before, command the Probe to move to the natural and then queue shift-click back to one of the Zerg’s main base minerals, while still having vision of them, the Probe will pass through the ramp block coming back). Warning: this is legal, while the ?gas walk’ or ?waypoint bug’ is illegal in most leagues. Admittedly, because usage #4 can easily be confused as the aforementioned illegal bug, it thus might be dubious to use in games (5) escaping an enemy’s main base with your scouting Probe when their ramp is blocked by units by commanding the scouting Probe to return to mining at the Protoss base (6) to gain distance from any pursuing attackers of the scouting Probe to ?walk through’ the mineral line and (7) if the scouting Probe already has a mineral, pressing <C> to ?Return Cargo’ will cause it to enter ?mine mode’ also.

moving Use right-clicking to move units rather than the <M> key. Note, while using the move command, units will ignore any enemies and/or enemy fire. Useful for retreating units, moving past static defenses, and the like.

following By selecting a unit or group of units and then issuing the ?move’ command on any other movable unit will cause the selected unit to follow that unit at a set distance. A unit will cease to follow if it loses vision (it will go to the last known location). Useful for following Dropships with fast Observers, enemy forces with Observers, Dragoons trailing Observers in PvT, and the like.

attacking Selecting a unit capable of attacking and then right-clicking an enemy unit will cause that unit to start attacking that enemy unit. The <A> key and then left-clicking will have the same effect. To attack owned units or buildings, use the <A> key then left-clicking the intended target. Once the enemy dies/is removed either by the intended force or other forces, the group will stop attacking.

attack move With a selected unit or group of units and then pressing <A> and then left-clicking on unoccupied ground will cause those units to move and subsequently attack any enemies that come within range (and are able to be attacked) during that course of movement to that point. Analogous to attacking, if the selected target is destroyed the commanded units will stop attacking and continue their movement. This can become problematic when a few units of a force are distracted and/or lured away, unintentionally splitting the force.

stopping By pressing <S>, all selected units will stop all actions and movement currently being performed and are to perform. If attacking, they will resume after a short period of time after being stopped. If an enemy unit comes into range and/or attacks an offensive unit, that unit will pursue and attack.

holding By pressing <H>, all selected units will hold their positions even if attacked outside their own attack range. Some units are unable to hold, such as Probes. However, if Probes are grouped with units that can hold position, such as with Zealots, then those Probes will continue to hold, even if the said Zealots die or are moved separately. This is useful in blocking ramps especially against Zergling rushes.

patrolling With a group of units, pressing <P> and left-clicking will cause the units to ?patrol’ from their original location to the selected point. The units are effectively in an ?attack move’ command and will engage any units they come across. It will return to its patrol path after the enemy is destroyed. Patrol paths tend to degrade over time, especially with a group of ground units at they tend to collide with one other. Patrolling yields better results in attacking for some unit types (such as Vultures). Using an Observer and patrolling it over multiple expansion sites is also a good use.

waypoints Similar to patrolling, waypointing is a method of queued movement from a point to another point to up to 10 points. This is done with a selected unit or units and holding <Shift> while right-clicking the locations to move to in the desired order. You can also use this with the <A> key to attack-move and/or attack specific targets in queue. Useful when you initially scout by queuing movement to each of the starting locations and navigating in a specific way.

queuing Commands can be queued by holding the <Shift> key. One can queue commands specifically with the Probe to build a Pylon and then immediately go back to mining by <B>, <P>, left-clicking, holding <Shift>, then right-clicking a mineral patch. Curiously, it seems that successive queuing of warping buildings cannot be done. Other uses include queuing a Shuttle to unload and then return to prepare to load more units.


_hotkeys



Every owned building, unit or group of units (maximum of 12) can be assigned a hotkey control group


_additional notes

- while a mouse button is depressed, the game ignores any keyboard input, this is especially important when rapidly macroing units by selecting a gateway pressing a unit hotkey, then selecting another gateway, pressing a unit hotkey etc.



TKTK
 

only[blue]

Previous Question:  Map EditFor single player  BlizzForums  SC Map Custom DevelopmentNext Question:  Zerg Economy Theory  BlizzForums  StarCraft Strategy

- Source: Advices BlizzForums StarCraft Strategy
- Previous Question: Map EditFor single player BlizzForums SC Map Custom Development
- Next Question: Zerg Economy Theory BlizzForums StarCraft Strategy





AllQuests.com